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Snow Removal for Airport

42K views 87 replies 21 participants last post by  bgoldn36  
#1 ·
I’m an airport operations manager that is new to the snow removal scene. Up to this point we’ve been using contractors for our snow removal needs, but we are looking into purchasing and operating our own equipment. I’m trying to evaluate things both on an economic and logistical basis.

Basically we have about 1.2 million square feet of pavement to clear. About half of it is comprised of aircraft parking, hangar areas, and roads/parking lots. The other half is taxiways and runways. We probably are going to continue using contractors for very large storms to get the airport open in a reasonable amount of time, but for our common two or three inch storms—and even up to a foot or so-we’d like the flexibility of doing things ourselves.

For the parking area it seems like a wheel loader, tractor, or backhoe with a good size pusher. If possible, we’d want to run the loader up and down between rows of aircraft; these runs would be about 350 feet long. Is it possible to push snow that far in a straight line? What size pusher/wheel loader would be appropriate for that application?

The problem with the taxiways and runways is that we don’t have a place to plow the snow; we either need to blow it somewhere or pick it up and move it. It seems like blowing would require fewer hours. Anyone have experience with large blowers, either that mount on heavy equipment or self-contained units like Oshkosh makes?

Thanks!
 
#3 ·
I can't answer your questions on sizing of machines.

I am just have a couple of questions in terms of the logistical end as long as you are going about this from a logistical and economical standpoint.

How many machines are you going to buy? 28 or so acres (i believe if my math is on) is quite a bit for a novice operator with 1 machine.
How many employees do you have for the snow removal process?
What are you going to do when your equipment brakes?
Are your employees capable of running such equipment?

Just a couple of things from an outside prospective.
 
#4 ·
What's avg snow fall and location?
 
#5 ·
Only having a contractor for "the bad ones" usually doesn't work well for any parties involved.
 
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#7 ·
Randall Ave;2125094 said:
I'd say go to other airports and see how they do it. A contractor is going to leave that kind of equipment on site on a may call agreement?
Good point here too. Reminds me of rally routes for municipalitys. Call only when they can't handle it. Sucks to have the equipment sitting for only when they could not handle a storm. No one want's equipment sitting for the "perfect storm"
 
#9 ·
Philbilly2;2125096 said:
I can't answer your questions on sizing of machines.

I am just have a couple of questions in terms of the logistical end as long as you are going about this from a logistical and economical standpoint.

How many machines are you going to buy? 28 or so acres (i believe if my math is on) is quite a bit for a novice operator with 1 machine.
How many employees do you have for the snow removal process?
What are you going to do when your equipment brakes?
Are your employees capable of running such equipment?

Just a couple of things from an outside prospective.
I think we'd be looking at two machines; using some of the production stuff I've seen it looks like we'd be able to get the facility cleared in about 12 hours with two, and that way we'd have backup and be able to limp by in the event one failed and we could not repair it.

We'd probably look at training four employees on the equipment.

Breaking equipment is one of my big concerns--hence why I'm looking at the logistics side rather than a simple "it costs x per hour and will be done in y hours" approach. Depending on the path we take we'd probably need to develop a close relationship with someone that can provide emergency service, send one or more of our more mechanically savvy guys to training to deal with at least minor issues, or simply plan as if one piece of equipment is going to break (or a combination of all three). Not cheap or simple, so one big plus with a contractor is having them worry about that stuff!

Some of our employees would be fine (they have run much larger and more complex machines), some I'd be on the fence about. But I could get four, and it is not out of the question that we'd consider hiring someone with heavy equipment experience on both the operating and maintenance side if we could figure out some stuff to keep them busy in the summer.

Great points... exactly the stuff I'm trying to sort through!
 
#10 ·
The problem is this

I'm a contractor, I have X amount of EQM that produces X amount per hour plowing snow. I can only make XXX.00 per hr when it snows.

Now, I have you that only wants me as back up, for if the big snow comes whenever that might be.

I think you'll have hard time finding a GOOD contractor that will back you up.
 
#11 ·
I guess another point that has not been brought up is:

Will these machines sit all summer? OR: Are you going to do a winter lease? Is it cost effective to have a machine sitting all summer if this is a purchase or can you apply this machine to some other aspect of the work that is preformed during the summer if it is owned or being payed on each month? If it sits all summer, we all know what happens to machines that sit...

So we are talking about 12 hours on a 2-3" event and that is an acceptable time frame for your location?
 
#13 ·
1olddogtwo;2125141 said:
The problem is this

I'm a contractor, I have X amount of EQM that produces X amount per hour plowing snow. I can only make XXX.00 per hr when it snows.

Now, I have you that only wants me as back up, for if the big snow comes whenever that might be.

I think you'll have hard time finding a GOOD contractor that will back you up.
That may be so, and is something I worried about, however it hasn't really been an issue in the past. Talking with folks who have been around longer than me and reviewing records it seems like on many occasions the normal contractor has stated "the forecast storm is too big, shop for someone else" and someone has been found. It seems like we have a lot of construction firms looking to do something in the slow season so getting people and equipment has never been a problem. Are they good by your standards? I don't know. Are we paying too much? I don't know. But it has worked thus far, so I'm focusing on the other 98% of storms where we don't need to find a special contractor.
 
#14 ·
I'd start by reviewing this document...

"Airside Snow Removal for airports with limited budgets"

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/Onlinepubs/acrp/acrp_syn_067.pdf

First piece of equipment they recommend is a plow truck; second is a snowblower.

At Zelienople (KPJC) where I built my hangars, the airport in total (my equipment, FBO's equipment, Airport's equipment is:

A Barko 961 with a 16' sweepster broom...a broom is important as you can't use salt and approved di-icers are $7 per 1000 square foot...prohibitive except for the largest airports. For small snowfalls, up to about 1.5 inches, nothing else is needed. The airport got the Barko with a fecon head for keeping the obstruction surfaces clear of growth. No idea as to cost.

A 1986 rebuild of a 1948 Sicard Senior snowblower, for getting rid of windrows and piles. Capacity of about 2000 tons per hour.

Two ex-Penndot 6 wheel plow trucks, one with a wing, one with a sander.

Two pickups with plows.

A articulated truck and a telehandler with pusher boxes for between hangar rows. A loader with the box would generally be the way to go, but I had a truck and didn't have a loader. The telehandler is nice because it is virtually unstoppable, very maneuverable and can either stack or push piles well off the pavement. It's not used as much now that the airport has a blower, but if a b lower isn't in the budget, I'd look into a telehandler with a box or, ideally, a plow with wings.

Basically the plows and pushers put snow into windrows or pushed piles and then the snowblower blows them into the detention pond or out into the weeds.

Takes 4 guys 3-4 hours to clear the airport (entrance road, ramps, taxilanes, taxiway, runway. I haven't calculated the square footage.
 
#16 ·
Philbilly2;2125143 said:
I guess another point that has not been brought up is:

Will these machines sit all summer? OR: Are you going to do a winter lease? Is it cost effective to have a machine sitting all summer if this is a purchase or can you apply this machine to some other aspect of the work that is preformed during the summer if it is owned or being payed on each month? If it sits all summer, we all know what happens to machines that sit...

So we are talking about 12 hours on a 2-3" event and that is an acceptable time frame for your location?
One big headache I see is that most of the stuff heavy enough to push efficiently is too big for many of our summer needs. A backhoe or tractor would be more versatile (digging, mowing, etc.) than a wheel loader but reading lots of threads on here it seems they might not having the pushing capacity we want.

From research on here and other sites, it looks like some of the older equipment that is past its prime on the job site can still be effective at snow removal. I think purchasing a lower cost unit would be our preferred avenue, and just run it periodically in the summer to keep it from sitting. We also might be able to store equipment inside if it isn't too big. If we bought something desirable, we could even lease it out in the summer--but that creates its own problems.

I don't know much about leasing from someone in the winter... has anyone had any luck with that in their operations?
 
#18 ·
Aerospace Eng;2125158 said:
Thanks, the link and info should be useful. We have a smaller runway (3000x75) but a larger ramp. We have about 150 tie down spots and 35,000 square feet of corporate hangars that all have their own ramps. Its a lot of pavement for only a 3000 foot runway, which is why I was thinking pusher on a piece of heavy equipment. I'll need to check out the broom options as that sounds like a winner for slush and light snows.
 
#20 ·
Why are you considering taking it in house?
 
#22 ·
I somewhat apologize for what is going to be a fairly long post....Hopefully the information is useful to you and/or contractors that may bid on snow removal.

In answer to your question about whether something can push 350 feet, the answer is yes. Our longest push is about 750 feet, and our machines easily push the snow to the end. The problem is spilling. Using a protech standard loader pusher SP-16L as an example (since they give a "capacity"), a 16 foot pusher will accomodate 21 yd^3 of snow. After doing some math, this is 425 ft-in. So, if you have a 1" snowfall, you should be able to push 425 feet before significant spilling, while you should be able to push 212.5 ft for a 2" snowfall. Actual results may vary.

If you start having significant spilling, you then have to come back and clean up the spilled windrows. If they are large enough, you start spilling and create two more trying to get rid of one. You can chase your tail for quite a while, but it will eventually get done.

Airports are fundamentally a different world than conventional snow plowing.

Because it is hard to clear next to buildings or aircraft, what we typically do at KPJC is to run a snowblower (or, for light snows, a snowgrader from jmenterprises) to clear 2 to 3 feet from the building or aircraft, then run a plow to widen the cleared path to 8 feet or so, and then start pushing. This way spillage stays far enough away from the building so that you can clean it up, rather than winding up with a berm under the tails and props of aircraft or pushed up against the hangar doors. At KPJC, Tenants are responsible for clearing within 3 feet of their building, and once the airport clears the ramp/taxilane they don't come back. This is where communication with the tenants comes in handy, so they can shovel/snowblow that initial 3 feet before the airport comes through.

Runways and taxiways are done with plow trucks and a broom in-trail to immediately broom the area before it can ice.

The most basic example of this can be found in taxiways. For a group I airport (accomodating aircraft with wingspans up to 50 feet), the taxiway width that should be free of obstacles is 80 feet wide. The pavement is typically only 25 feet wide. For group II aircraft (up to 80 foot spans) the area free of obstacles is supposed to be 116 feet, and the paved area is typically 35 feet. Runways have similar issues.

For Group I and II aircraft, the guidance from the FAA is to have a berm no higher than 6" at the runway edge lights, increasing to 2 feet 16 feet beyond the lights and 5 feet 32 feet beyond the lights. Even if you ignore that guidance, the lights must be uncovered if the airport is to allow landings at night or in IFR conditions, which creates a problem if you simply plow to the edge and leave a berm, as you then have to shovel around the lights by hand.

Similarly, if you don't push the snow way beyond the paved area of the ramp, then you start losing ramp area for maneuvering.

Hence the use of big blowers on airports. Windrow the snow to the last 8' or so of pavement and then blow it into the weeds. You can get an idea of prices for used blowers at www.publiquip.com. This is mostly canadian equipment, but as a result they have a bigger selection of large blowers than most US sites. One issue may be whether you are required to have Tier IV compliant equipment, as the older blowers will not meet this requirement.

At the risk of turning this into read-a-book_site, guidance from the FAA can be found in Advisory Circular AC 150/5200-30C, "Airport Winter Safety and Operations." While non-mandatory except for part 129 airports, it is guidance that can be used either for yourself or for establishing and evaluating what is a "good job" for a contractor.

Guidance on equipment selection can be found in AC 150/5220-20A, "Airport Snow and Ice Control Equipment."

Another difference between airports and other sites is the lack of traffic before plowing and obstacles. This is an advantage because you don't need to worry about scraping hard-pack, and can use rubber edge pushers on ramp areas with reasonable results, particularly if you broom afterwards. This is important due to the no-salt requirements. At KPJC salt is not even used on the entrance roads, as tenants will occasionally drive on the ramps to get to T-hangars and the airport does not want salt tracked in. Urea used to be acceptable as a de-icer, and the FAA is not opposed, but usually the local EPA equivalent has banned it as a de-icer for environmental reasons.

With respect to leasing equipment, I know of some airports in ag communities that will purchase a large PTO snowblower (such as a snowblast/teamco 10800 or larger) and then contract with a local farmer for the use of a large (300 PTO hp) ag tractor to run the blower when they need it. The farmers aren't usually opposed as their tractor isn't doing anything in the winter anyway.

Similarly, you might be able to find paving contractors with brooms that are sitting idle all winter.

Assuming you a public airport, you might be able to get first dibs on equipment that BWI or some regional airports are getting rid of.

You may be able to get equipment using AIP funds, but that requires that you have put it in your master plan, 12 year plan, 5 year plan, etc., and have done the appropriate politicking. You also only get AIP $$ for equipment once every 10 years or so, so a lot of thought has to go into it. As with everything, there are strings. If you get any money for equipment, the FAA prohibits it from being used off the airport, so forget leasing it out.
 
#23 ·
MAN, this is the reason I LOVE THIS SITE. Although I doubt I will ever be involved in airport snow removal, 1) this is an interesting thread to follow and 2) the ABSOLUTE WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE on any given subject and the "holders" of said knowledge that are willing to get on here, and take the time to share it with others, is incredible. AWESOME POST A.E.
 
#24 ·
derekslawncare;2125401 said:
MAN, this is the reason I LOVE THIS SITE. Although I doubt I will ever be involved in airport snow removal, 1) this is an interesting thread to follow and 2) the ABSOLUTE WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE on any given subject and the "holders" of said knowledge that are willing to get on here, and take the time to share it with others, is incredible. AWESOME POST A.E.
Very true... I am enjoying that the OP is taking the information that all are providing and listening as these are angles of the industry to think about and not taking the defense automatically. Hopefully he can get the information that he needs to make his discussion and use it effectively. Thumbs Up
 
#25 ·
Aerospace Eng;2125350 said:
I somewhat apologize for what is going to be a fairly long post....Hopefully the information is useful to you and/or contractors that may bid on snow removal.

Because it is hard to clear next to buildings or aircraft, what we typically do at KPJC is to run a snowblower (or, for light snows, a snowgrader from jmenterprises) to clear 2 to 3 feet from the building or aircraft, then run a plow to widen the cleared path to 8 feet or so, and then start pushing. This way spillage stays far enough away from the building so that you can clean it up, rather than winding up with a berm under the tails and props of aircraft or pushed up against the hangar doors. At KPJC, Tenants are responsible for clearing within 3 feet of their building, and once the airport clears the ramp/taxilane they don't come back. This is where communication with the tenants comes in handy, so they can shovel/snowblow that initial 3 feet before the airport comes through.

Runways and taxiways are done with plow trucks and a broom in-trail to i
I appreciate all the details. I'm at KFME, we currently deal with Cat I and Cat II aircraft (we do get MV-22s on rare occasions which are Cat III but they are such oddballs and so rare I'm not really worried about them!)

We generally don't get too close to the planes, and as you mentioned a big concern is not having a pile they need to dig out from. Due to our ramp design there is not really anywhere to blow, so I think pushing (or a broom for light stuff) is our only option. The runway and taxiway would be good for blowing.

Any reason you plow the runway than pick up the windrow with a blower, rather than just blowing the entire surface?
 
#26 ·
TUPilot;2125467 said:
I appreciate all the details. I'm at KFME, we currently deal with Cat I and Cat II aircraft (we do get MV-22s on rare occasions which are Cat III but they are such oddballs and so rare I'm not really worried about them!)

We generally don't get too close to the planes, and as you mentioned a big concern is not having a pile they need to dig out from. Due to our ramp design there is not really anywhere to blow, so I think pushing (or a broom for light stuff) is our only option. The runway and taxiway would be good for blowing.

Any reason you plow the runway than pick up the windrow with a blower, rather than just blowing the entire surface?
My guess would be that blowers are generally extremely slow moving, regardless of depth, they pretty much move at a crawl, so it is probably much quicker to windrow over to the side with several passes from the plow which moves quickly, then make one pass with the blower to get rid of the windrow.