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Wording for Salting Waiver - pls. help

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by RB, Oct 12, 2001.

  1. RB

    RB Senior Member
    Messages: 197

    Does anyone use a salting waiver. I recently picked up a Wendy's Hamburger account. The General Manager asked if I could get approval from his manager if we are going to salt (after our initial plow/salt of the day). I told him that's no problem, but I added an addendum in his contract that states that if Contractor (me) recommends to the Customer saltign should be done and Customer refuses, they are liable for any suit that arises.

    I'm having a hard time professionally, consicely, and leaglly wording this form.

    Any help will be greatly appreciated.

  2. SnoJob67

    SnoJob67 Senior Member
    Messages: 384

    I'm not a lawyer. However, I would cover myself by stating that the customer accepts all responsibility for slip and fall lawsuits since they require pre approval for salting rather than leaving it to your discretion. Either way, you still could end up defending yourself against a lawsuit.

    It has gotten to the point (quite quickly) that I don't take accounts if they don't leave discretion to perform ANY snow or ice operations to us. There are customers that will accept a reasonable service level. Seek them out. I had a restaurant chain ask me for the same thing. I am not planning on sending a waiver. Many areas salt at a 3:1 ratio; three saltings to every one plowing event. The money is in the salting, not the plowing once you figure out the damage plowing does to a vehicle over time.

    This is the bottom line. If you have any common sense at all (I'm sure you do because you would not be asking for help, otherwise.) you know when it is time to salt. Why do you need approval? Because the manager is trying to save every cent he can. I'd go talk to 10 more small commercial accounts and forget the Wendy's account. Somebody out there wants your services and is willing to pay for you to do the work necessary. What I have to say is meant to encourage, not discourage.

    Anybody who puts a tablespoon or more of mustard on a single hamburger doesn't have what it takes to decide when salt applications are necessary!:rolleyes:
  3. RB

    RB Senior Member
    Messages: 197

    thanx for your input. I appreciate it.

  4. plowjockey

    plowjockey PlowSite.com Sponsor
    Messages: 622


    If you are a SIMA member they have sample contracts that have wording to cover just what you want.

  5. John DiMartino

    John DiMartino PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,154

    I salt at my discretion,if the manager/owner does not want it,I have them sign a service refusal,if its a phone call,I note it in my log,date/time name/.if they refuse 3X,I look to replace that account the following season.Their insurance company wouldnt be to happy if they found out that their insured was refusing necessary ice control,you could always let them know with a letter,I have never done this,but I know it will stir up some mud.
  6. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011

    From my contracts: "...sand and/or de-icer applications to the parking area and sidewalks at contractors’ discretion..."

    In the eight years in the biz nobody has yet to b*tch about me applying sand or salt unnecessarily.

    It would seem to me that, waiver or not, somebody injured in a slip and fall incident will catch you in that wide net, since you, as the contractor, are the professional, and better able to determine site conditions than some $7/hr night manager.
  7. RB

    RB Senior Member
    Messages: 197


    Good point! I don't think this will be an issue though.

  8. Plow Meister

    Plow Meister PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,174

    What is SIMA? Do they have a web site?
  9. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    I'm surprised nobody else provided this link yet. I encourage you to look around and join. Been well worth the money. Many of the people on PlowSite also belong to SIMA - Snow and Ice Management Association. If you want, you could do a "search" here for "SIMA" and get lots of information.

  10. Mike Nelson

    Mike Nelson Senior Member
    Messages: 637

    Plow Meister,

    Sima stands for Snow & Ice Management Association and yes they have a web site www.sima.org.com

    Also on this subject you should talk to your insurance carrier for their advice.

    Good Luck
  11. Sammy

    Sammy Member
    Messages: 38

    Mike Nelson, You have the wrong link posted. :)
  12. Mike Nelson

    Mike Nelson Senior Member
    Messages: 637

    Thanks Sammy,

    It is the com that doesn't belong.

    Thanks again
  13. Santo

    Santo Banned
    Messages: 255

    Santo applies salt to help icy conditions only , and is not responsible for any slip/fall and or vehicle accidents whatsoever and further more makes no claims to do so.
  14. Adams plowing

    Adams plowing Senior Member
    Messages: 195

    by saying this you might inadvertnatly screw yourself because when a slip fall claim comes in and you did sand\salt they will say you are fully accepting liability for that slip fall. because the contract can be interperated to mean that if you specificly say thay are responcible for the slip fall if they dont let you salt then therefor you are responcible when you recomend it. quite honestly i would fully disclame any slip/fall liability heres how i have it in my contract. gotta make sure to CYA not worth leaving yourself open to any loser that wants to make a fast buck by sueing you for all your worth.

    10. Limitation of Liability: The contractor will exercise reasonable care to avoid damage to pavement, curbs, trees and shrubs. However, the contractor is not responsible for any: a) damage to landscaping caused by the piling of snow or the spreading of the chemicals described in this agreement; b) damage to items that are snow-covered or not visible; c) damage caused by equipment when tree, shrub and sidewalk areas are not reasonably delineated due to snow accumulation; d) personal injuries resulting from slip and fall accidents; and/or e) Acts of God, including but not limited to extraordinary weather conditions.
  15. BRL

    BRL PlowSite.com - Veteran
    Messages: 1,277

    Very good points Adams Plowing!

    Here are some thoughts on the clause you posted IMO, and I am not an attorney by any means. But if I was your client i would ask about the second point for sure.

    - Any snow or ice event is "an Act of God" by definition. Of course contractors are not responsible for Acts of God, so there is no point for having E in that particular paragraph.

    - Part C is very confusing. How do you draw or describe with words the " tree, shrub and sidewalk areas", and how does the snow accumulation change such drawing or description? This is saying that you are not responsible for those areas if the drawing of them (provided by you, or your client?) gets altered by the snow accumulation. Not sure how you would alter said drawing with the snow accumulation, and I'm not sure how you would damage any of that stuff because of said alteration.

    This is a really old thread that Santo brought back up, but for anyone else that lands in RB's situation, there is a very good salt waiver clause posted somewhere here if you want to do the search for it.
  16. Adams plowing

    Adams plowing Senior Member
    Messages: 195

    the act of god thing is something my lawyer said to put in there i figure he knows what hes talking about so i allowed it.
    once again it was the lawyer that worded it that way basicly what it is saying if say they have something that is an obsticle that is not marked or declared and it is covered by snow and therefor not visible and it gets damaged then it is not our fault.
    such as if one of my res. customers has me contracted to plow their driveway and they leave something that would not be recored on my scetches and they have not marked it such as a kids bike or something of that nature.
  17. 76chevyman

    76chevyman Member
    Messages: 46

    This is what i have i nmy contract and if anybody thinks i should add anything please let me know
    2. The undersigned will not hold Rich’s Snow Plowing responsible for any accidents that may occur on or around your driveway area before or after snow removal, not directly involving our equipment or operator. Rich’s Snow Plowing is not responsible for scratches to driveways due to tire chains, nor for broken or bent snow stakes that are not in a proper location.