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What would you bid for this?

Discussion in 'Bidding & Estimating' started by MSsnowplowing, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. MSsnowplowing

    MSsnowplowing Senior Member
    Messages: 761

    Already put my bid in, just interested in what others think.

    Simple plowing 2 inch mark, salt/sand after a storm and depending on conditions during on the slight incline they have as they have a lot of tractor trailers show up for pick up.

    So you need to be on site and plowing with the storm.

    I figured two trucks and a skid steer when needed for the back lot where they store the product.

    The red is what needs to be cleared.
    Simple roadway, lot in the middle and then the back area -(that is the pita factor)

    They wanted a seasonal rate.

    site pic with red outline.jpg
  2. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,910

    Square footage would help.

    It must be a lot bigger than it looks, or you get a chit ton of snow for 2 trucks plus a skid steer to be on site constantly.
  3. MSsnowplowing

    MSsnowplowing Senior Member
    Messages: 761

    It is 10 acres.

    Only running the two trucks during the storm, then one guy in the skid steer for the clean up and the other in a truck. Sorry for the confusion.
  4. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,910

    I don't agree with what you're putting there...

    But with that equipment, I'd bid it for 5 hours per 2 inches, plus 1 hour cleanup. Apply your hourly rate as you see fit.

    If it were me, I'd put a skid and push box full time, and a truck as needed. Just me.
    SouthSuburban likes this.
  5. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    It appears to have a heated pavement, should be easy money....
  6. MSsnowplowing

    MSsnowplowing Senior Member
    Messages: 761

    I figured around 6-8 hrs,
    the back area has to be cleaned out in amongst the containers they have stored there and pushed to the edges. That is the pita factor and most time consuming. If I just had a skid steer there it would take longer.

    No per push they wanted a seasonal price

    And the pavement is not heated, that would have been nice.
  7. Superior L & L

    Superior L & L PlowSite Veteran
    from MI
    Messages: 3,041

    10 acres minus the building and containers I'm assuming ?
  8. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,910

    Except cleaning around the containers is where a skid steer and pusher will make a truck look stupid. In fact, the only part of that lot a skid steer and push box wouldn't make a truck look stupid is the entrance.

    If you're planning on 6-8 hours for a 2 inch snow, you either need to re evaluate the equipment on site, or your ability to estimate time. I don't see why a skid steer and 10 foot push box couldn't handle that by it's self in 5 hours with 2 inches of snow. Plus an hour of dickaround cleanup time if needed. Unless there's something major I'm missing.

    And one last thing...how could someone come up with a seasonal rate unless they first had a per push rate to calculate from? I'm not going to give you a price, that's pointless. You're in MA, I'm in OH. Might be half, might be double. Who knows?

    My time estimate assumes ~25% is occupied by containers/building etc.
  9. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    Smallest 10 I've seen in a while....those units ever move? What are they?

    A skid with pusher and bucket 5-6 hrs tops on a 4in event

    Chances are they don't need 24 hr plowing... Let the skid work all night and put trucks on other lots making $$$

    Maximize the steel hitting pavement.
  10. ss502gmc

    ss502gmc Senior Member
    Messages: 473

    $120,000 for the season with salt
  11. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,910

    Holy **** I'm moving to Bridgewater
  12. MSsnowplowing

    MSsnowplowing Senior Member
    Messages: 761

    Interesting, of course my skid steer only has a bucket and its open.
    Don't know if I want to put a guy in a open skid during a snow storm, that's why two trucks,.
    That back area is really a pita, they move that stuff around and it changes every few days.
    But I am going to look at a pusher for the skid.
    Thanks for the info
  13. Defcon 5

    Defcon 5 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,914

    That's your bid????..Let us know how that one turns out
  14. MSsnowplowing

    MSsnowplowing Senior Member
    Messages: 761

    I'm with you on that, wish I could get that for that
  15. MSsnowplowing

    MSsnowplowing Senior Member
    Messages: 761

    We average around 15-18 storms a year averaging between 52-65 inches of snow
    Out of all those storms we might get 1 that's 1 2" storm, the rest being 3-12 inches.
    My time is based on 4 inches.
    And like I said that back area is a real pita and my skid is open, not putting a guy in it during a storm.
    Could I do it with 1 truck and then a skid steer, yes but as this would be a new contract, I prefer to put two truck on it for the first few storms then reevaluate.
    And i would rather figure in an extra hour or two than under time it
  16. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,910

    Is the skid a 2 speed? If it is, I'd be tempted to throw one of those cheapy vinyl cabs on it and an aftermarket heater in the cab that uses engine coolant. If it's not a 2 speed, ignore my skid thoughts about using it alone. I could still see it being useful to clean around the containers and then use a truck to move snow to stacking areas.

    I still maintain that it'll be a 5 hour push and no more than an hour for cleanup. I think it'll go faster than that personally but without seeing it in person it's tough to tell.

    We bid seasonals per push price X average number of pushes plus per salting price X (1.5 X average number of pushes) Some years you come out a little under budgeted pushes/saltings, some years you don't. It's tough to lose money on seasonal, unless you include any needed offsite hauling. That can kill you fast.

    Good luck.
  17. MSsnowplowing

    MSsnowplowing Senior Member
    Messages: 761

    The one I wanted was a tad bit expensive and would have done exactly what you are talking about, but I bought what I could pay cash for, nothing fancy and a little slow but it will get the job done.

    And you could be spot on with the time,

    My gut instinct tells me half hour to 1 hour for the roads, around the building with the loading docks and the almost wide open area.
    Depends on the time and how many tractor trailers we are dodging to push snow.

    The back section can range from 3-5 hours depending on what they have stored there.

    I'm sure the first few storms will be longer than normal until we get a feel for the place.

    I do the same for pricing but I look at the last 5 years of total snow fall and average it out.

    It is usually within plus or minus 3-6 inches of the snow fall we get so it works out pretty well for pricing.

    I don't worry about major snow fall because I learned from Nemo and all my contracts now have the clause that any one storm over 15 inches the client pays X amount per 1-3.

    Edit -( I put it in my contract for all seasonal pricing, skid steer work is a extra cost, never had to haul out snow even during the big ones.)

    Here is exactly what I put in my contracts:

    Additional Costs that may occur for Seasonal service or Per Storm pricing

    Major Blizzards for Seasonal service
    Any one storm over 15 inches there will be additional costs:
    For over 15 inches, there will be additional cost of $_____ every 1 to 3 inches for plowing.
    For over 15 inches, there will be additional cost of $_____ every 1 to 3 inches for sidewalks.

    Extra Plowing - (service call)
    If you ask us to come back the following day after we have been there and cleaned up the roadways and parking spots, there will be an additional charge for this; it will be a cost of $_____ an hour, minimum 1 hour.

    Extra Sanding for Roadways and Parking Lots - (service call)
    In the event that additional sanding is needed on non-storm days for melt off from roofs, drains, etc...
    Said application will cost $_______ per application

    Melt Off, Icy Conditions for sidewalks - (service call)
    Salting for icy conditions on non-storm days for melt off from roofs, drains, etc...
    It will be at a cost of $_____ an hour, minimum 1 hour and a cost of product of $20 dollars per bag used.

    Skid steer usage for clearing and relocating snow - (service call)
    Machine cost is $________ for pick up and drop of the machine, diesel fuel used, etc...
    It will be at a cost of $________ an hour, minimum time 2 hours.

    Any of these service calls would only be completed upon verbal orders from you or your site manager.

    Thanks and you have a great season too.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  18. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,910

    Looks like you've got your bases covered pretty good.

    The only caps we put on our seasonal work is a blizzard clause. Never had much issue with recalls etc, we do site checks daily during winter any time there's snow on the ground, we always hit trouble spots when we're there.

    Let us know the outcome if you get it after you've pushed it a few times.
  19. MSsnowplowing

    MSsnowplowing Senior Member
    Messages: 761

    You have to put a blizzard clause in for major storms over 14 inches, I know guys that do it for any storm over 12 inches -(thus my 15 and above, gives me a 3 inch edge on pricing :rolleyes:)

    Site checks is one thing I do not do, I only go to site during the snow storms and next day clean up.
    My lawyer advised me not to do that as you can be considered maintenance and you are more responsible for any type of slip and fall for the entire season.

    Your lot is cleared, salted, it's black top.

    Someone drives in and snow falls off by a entrance from under their car or off their roof, and someone walks out and slips and falls on it, you own it even if it hadn't snowed in days.

    Snow melts from the roof and drains out into the parking lot and freezes during the night and is black ice in the morning -(has not snowed in a week), if someone slips and falls you own it.

    And you know, that little bit of only going to a site during a snow storm saved my bacon on my first slip and fall lawsuit.

    I tell the site owner or their manager if something like that happens they can call me and I will take care of it but otherwise it is their responsibly to keep a eye on the site.

    And don't get me wrong, most of my sites I'm driving by going somewhere else and If I see something out of whack, I pull in and take care of it, but I would never put it in writing that i do daily checks. Thumbs Up
  20. John_DeereGreen

    John_DeereGreen 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,910

    I see it as no matter what happens in a slip and fall, we will be named in a lawsuit. I'd rather be able to document with GPS that we were there and serviced trouble spots than to say sorry, site manager should have called us.

    I think you guys are a lot more liable for slip and falls up there than we are here. It's tough to win a slip and fall claim in OH.