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What to pay a sub thats in my truck....

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by wilsonsground, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. wilsonsground

    wilsonsground Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    Hey guys, been plowing for years and this year picked up another truck to put to use. Almost have enough for a route for my dump truck. My question is, and i know theres stuff on here but i cant find answers to what im looking for, im looking to see what the going rate for soemone like this is. Im paying for expenses, hes just driving it to plow my places. What is the going rate for soemthing like this? its a 1 ton dump with an 8.5' straigh blade. I know subs with their own trucks and plows get roughly $65 an hour, but this is not the case. Any help would be great! Im in southern NH
  2. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    Thats not a sub, thats an employee.

    Your truck, your plow, your expenses = you are just hiring a driver.

    His truck, his plow, his expenses = sub
  3. peteo1

    peteo1 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,660

    Sounds like somewhere in the neighborhood of $15/hr if you ask me. Probably more if he's good.
  4. wilsonsground

    wilsonsground Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    i may have left out an important factor, this guy im looking to put in my truck has his own company as well, and carries all his own insurance. and yes hes got years upon years of plow experience.
  5. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    His insurance does not matter.

    Accident or incident will go against YOUR insurance.

    Employee - pay him a wage. Its very CLEAR, he is not a sub by any definition you try to make up from what you have described.
  6. wilsonsground

    wilsonsground Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    thanks but i think canada may have different guidelines, people do it all the time down here in the states. and according my IRS checklist, its on the edge of sub or employee. Ill have to call the IRS for further questions.
  7. Liberty LLC

    Liberty LLC Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 64

    I agree he is an employee under your circumstances. Ypur equipment he's just a driver he is an emplyee not a sub. People always try to do it your way a good account would tell you Employee.
  8. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    shhhhhssss He does not want to hear that. :rolleyes:
  9. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    Why would someone who has his own company work for someone else like that
  10. Drottlawn

    Drottlawn Senior Member
    Messages: 364

    Been there, done that. If you write a check to his name, he is a employee. Check to his company name, he is a sub. I have done both. $15-$20 would be the range of pay. Its your insurance either way since it is your truck. Thumbs Up
  11. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Look up casual labor. If you pay him less then 600 a year then no taxes. PSSSSS,pay him with gas cards.
  12. Grassman09

    Grassman09 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,808

    Or food stamps. Works for Goel.:p
  13. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    Your funny grasslam. Do they even have food stamps in our country? You still owe me lunch.

    Grandview I expect better from you. Car washes I can see, but gas cards?
  14. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    Nothing wrong paying ppl with gas cards
  15. BPS#1

    BPS#1 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,421

    It takes a lot more than that to differentiate between a sub and employee.
    Look up the IRS guidelines. Goel is right.
    It doesn't matter that the guy has his own insurance etc.
    Thats for HIS truck, not when hes working for you as an employee.

    With his years and years and years of experience I would think he should be worth $25 to $30 an hr.
  16. Willybak

    Willybak Junior Member
    Messages: 28

    So... I may be a little slow on the uptake since I am new to the business... but what benefit does it present me if I pay an "employee" :) with Gas Cards? I am thinking that it is a method of remuneration for his services that falls of the table at tax time :) .
  17. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,215

    Yes in Canada we do have slightly different guidelines, but in this case Goel is 100% right.
    Ask yourself these 4 questions, with the answer contractor or sub.
    1) Who has the right of control? Whether the people for whom a person works have the right to direct and control the way they do their jobs.
    2) Who owns the tools and equipment to get the job done?
    3) Who has the chance to make a profit or incurs the risk of loss?
    Sub-Contractors typically have ongoing fixed costs that are not reimbursed by the payer, they make personal monetary investment into the work being done.
    4)Integration (how essential is a sub-contractor to your business? The greater the degree to which a sub-contractor is economically dependent on your business, the greater the likelihood that the relationship will be viewed as one of employer-employee.
    There you go, this was taken from the SIMA CSP Module 4 Sub-Contractors. It goes into greater detail, but hands down in your situation he is an employee.
  18. Grassman09

    Grassman09 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,808

    Ok. And you still owe me a Backhoe transportation.. Look up spice 11 in Guelph. Great food. As for food stamps... I knew a gal that used to be on them.
  19. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    Sorry for hijacking the thread. Check your email for hoe transport. Price is good I think
  20. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    Good to hear from you Paul. Those 4 points make it pretty easy for anyone to understand.