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what a joke!

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by go plow, Nov 30, 2006.

  1. go plow

    go plow Senior Member
    Messages: 322

    i gave a lady a price for plowing a few weeks ago, she called me last night wanting to sign on
    so this morning i went over to her home , gave her the agreement, she looked it over, i then explained what i will do, and asked if she would like to have a proof of insurance, then i went over the contract with her.
    Her husband in a very rude tone, said, boy, you sure are making a big deal for just plowing my driveway! i said, sir, this is a big deal, this is what i do for a living, i dont just do it part time, plus what if something were to go wrong? and i hit your garage doors or car? he said that the other guy broke his curb last year and didnt fix it!
    so then his wife says that my price is the same as they paid last year ,but didnt understand why i charge them sales tax.
    so i explain to them that the state requires me to charge tax on every thing i do, no matter if im just providing my service or if im selling them a product, i told them that i can mail them the info from the state office, or they can look it up on-line , on the state web site...
    so we went back and forth over tax for a while, then i simply told them that they didnt have to hire me, and that i was sorry that they didnt feel comfortable signing on with me, and then i got the old, well, if we hire the other guy and he doesn't show up, can you come?
    do people think that we make the rules and tax laws? do they think that we will pay the tax for them? so on a $35 driveway, by the time you pay sales tax and income tax, take fuel out of it, insurance out of it, then take a little for yourself, oh-wait theres non left lol....
  2. LLM Ann Arbor

    LLM Ann Arbor Senior Member
    Messages: 876

    Not to be rude but thats what Ive been saying about these extensive contracts.

    They piss people off most of the time.

    Sorry you lost the job. Maybe a simpler service agreement in the future for your residential prospects?

    Grandview has a very nice simple piece. And never say "Contract" to them. Use the term "service agreement" no matter what you use for them to sign.

    And thank god service companies here in MI dont have to charge a sales tax.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  3. Snowman19

    Snowman19 Senior Member
    Messages: 323

    Yeah, NOT YET!!! Im sure its coming :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
  4. cornbinder

    cornbinder Senior Member
    Messages: 348

    i see your dillema. let's see maybe "i'll hire the guy that busted my curb last year and didn't fix it".well what can i say, some people in this world are morons and have the common sense of a house brick!! go to the next one there will be other's that will appreciate what you have to offer. oh yeah use the term service agreement instead of contract it's a mental thing. later, pete
  5. Jpocket

    Jpocket Senior Member
    Messages: 302

    Yet another reason to not to deal with residential customers. I have found that it's just not worth offering certain services to the majority of homeowners. Homeowners will make you pull your hair out if you let them.

    Last year i had a whole route full of driveways to be done, this year I will do about 5 for our very best Lawn customers. THAT "S ITTTTT!!!
  6. Superior L & L

    Superior L & L PlowSite Veteran
    from MI
    Messages: 3,041

    ah men!!!!!!!
  7. Duracutter

    Duracutter Senior Member
    from Canada
    Messages: 200

    Haha... residential snow. They go as well as water/oil.

    $35 per push. Just as bad as residential lawn cutting. Good way to go broke.
  8. jbone

    jbone Senior Member
    Messages: 154

    would it possible for you to include the sales tax into the price without listing it as sales tax? for instance lets jsut say its $35 to plow plu $3 for sales tax just give them a price of $38 without breaking it down or telling them they are paying sales tax. Just an idea. Residential plowing is probably the biggest hassle along the lines of customers, but if you do it right it can make you some good money.
  9. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    $40.oo bucks tax included:waving:
  10. somm

    somm Senior Member
    Messages: 200

    So what do you do LLM? Let them sign up on an Office Depot generic "agreement" form, while signing your own business' azz-away on any nonspecific liability issue the customer cares to raise??????? Or do you drive around with your plow and say "hey buddy, like that drive plowed?", then give 'em a price and a handshake???????
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  11. SnowGuy73

    SnowGuy73 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 24,870

    Here in Minnesota snow removal is a non taxable service. Lawn care, landscaping, and everything else is taxable just not snow removal. Wonder why it would be in some states but not others?
  12. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Check your State laws on how things have to be worded/listed. For example, here in Maine, you could technically include the tax in the price. But, you cannot inform the buyer of that before the sale. On sales I make, I do not charge sales tax. But, I have to send the State tax based on the sales I make. So, yes the tax is factored into the price of the goods.
  13. mayhem

    mayhem PlowSite.com Addict
    from Peru MA
    Messages: 1,016

    This makes by far the most sense to me. Just build the taxes into your pricing structure and charge a flat fee. Its transparent to the customer, you stay legit and the customers get the benefit of not only your experience, but also your insurance policy.
  14. LLM Ann Arbor

    LLM Ann Arbor Senior Member
    Messages: 876

    Right now I have five 50/60 dollar resis I do, and I sub 3 large commercials.

    Yes I use a standard contractor agreement for people I dont know which is few.

    Im going to go LLC soon within a month, and am updating to a personalized "service agreement/contract"

    But I will never use one of the negative sounding overblown contracts for resis.

    When I sell a commercial account it will be different and I will be ready....dont worry.

    I also have a large policy.

    Frankly....unless someone slips and falls and sues me I'll handle all liabilities out of pocket like a gentleman, unless the issue is huge. Im not interested in getting my insurance raised or cancelled filing a claim that I can manage to settle on my own.

    Thanks for your concern for my well being though.

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  15. go plow

    go plow Senior Member
    Messages: 322

    my contracts or agreements are not that scary, 99.9% of the people that sign them have no problem what so ever, it states what service we will provide at said price. it explains times ,snow amount , payment/late fees and cancellation terms .
    it also explains what we repair in the spring and what we dont, like gravel or lawn, anything that is not marked (flower beds/ kids toy out in the snow) is not covered in our repair policy....
    As far as including the sales tax in the price, i have thought of that before, the problem is the area im in, so many part timers or price shoppers, if i include the tax in the price,
    even if the tax is $2.50 most people would go with a cheaper price. ive lost jobs over $2 before lol. or what if you do a larger job 2/4k thats a lot of tax to pay, you end up loosing a lot right off the top or you have to include it and risk bidding to high !!
  16. exmark1

    exmark1 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,321

    Really? I need to talk to my accountant! We have been collecting and paying in Sales Tax for plowing since we started!

    Thanks for the info!
  17. LLM Ann Arbor

    LLM Ann Arbor Senior Member
    Messages: 876

    Oh yeah cuz doing five to ten an hour and making 175 to 350 an hour is a great way to go broke.


    Then you go and bid commercials at 125 an hour.

    You do the math.