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The Jones Effect?

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by elite1msmith, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    So i admit it, i screwed up

    i have a large account,

    the prevoius contractor of 2 yrs, does the account next door.

    My account closes much early than his neihbor., (which the other contractor does) well they salted it last night , late evening, some traffic worked the salt in , and the contractor did a good job, I see this morning , he out down a heavy app of salt last night , you can still see it this morning

    at 6 PM 3 trucks were sitting our lot ready to go. filled and fueled with drivers... but our lot was clean and stayed clean till they closed. the wind was bloewing and i figured that i would sent the guys home. Check and salt in the morning. Well this morning came around, and we applied a heavy layer of salt. just used rock , nothing special. The temp was way down in the 10 range. but since they open very late, i figured that it would work when the sun came up.

    Well sure enough, the manager called, statted compairing the lot next door, to my own. Granted by the time they open i was 100% water, and even over applied the salt. even mixied in some calcuim just to get it started ....but when its 10 degrees out, melting becomes more difficult.

    So i basicly had to explain it to him that ......its 10 degrees, sun light, traffic, you guys know it. But still he insited that Mr jones lot looks much better

    what do you do in this type of situation? did i screw up? i shook his hand and basicly said we would try different things next time... but would you salt it at 10 pm even if its been closed up a few hours? with the wind blowing? or would you have waited till morning to see what the wind was gonna do?

    Oh, its a Fixed seasonal account, so salting it twice doesnt sit well these days on the pocket book
  2. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    Dont sweat it. It was melted by the time they opened.

    We personally wont wait till the morning to salt, we'd rather salt in the evening if conditions warrant, and check in in the morning again, and spot salt if needed. Mind you, we're salt extra, so its not coming out of my wallet. You never know who may be visiting after hours ie: deliveries etc,

    I'm sure they'll notice if the guy next door ever screws up and never tell you you did a great job.

    We have a neighbouring property close to one of my retails we treat extra special, to out perform the guy next door cuz he's always sleeping and a bit of an arrogant ***** I know i'll get a call someday to take that one over too, but I wont initiate the call for some reason.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2008
  3. Woodland

    Woodland Senior Member
    Messages: 269

    The snow was gone and the ice was melted, so what was the problem? His lot was still wet? Thats just ignorant on his part, and there isn't a whole lot you can do to combat ignorance.
  4. coldcoffee

    coldcoffee Senior Member
    Messages: 776

    I'm not a big fan of salt built into the contract for the entire season...too risky...Someone always wins and someone always looses, but both parties are seldom satisfied. I have flat rates on the plowing, but salt is always extra. So, even if we get a long hard snow event my worst case scenario is maybe a close to break even on that one event, and I almost always make up for it on other events when little or no plowing is required. They can have anything they want, but they will pay for it!

    Messages: 32

    Building salt into the seasonal actuallly works out great if you word it correctly... They feel they are getting something for free, which in this day and age you pretty much have to give a little to get a lot.... If you factor in your salt in the seasonal you just have to put a cap on how many applications they get and when they use them, then salt is now billable... Also to save your self, call it per application not per ton.
  6. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    dont worry about it elite

    yesterdays storm was a real tough one to get right with it being so warm when it snowed then getting so cold overnight
  7. plownoob

    plownoob Senior Member
    from ny
    Messages: 128

    tell him snow/ice control is a marathon, not a sprint... and you're just getting warmed up! prsport
  8. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    his beaf was , when the night crew came in at 4 am , we had only salted were the employees park. that was the only area deiced. my plan was to be there at 6 am , at sunrise and salt it , however his call at 3:30 said other wise. at 4am we salted, at 4 am it was like 7 degrees, there was a dusting on the pavment. by 9 it was melting, when the temps came up . clean by 10 , which happens to be the time they open. I even sat in the lot and watched it all melt till about 10:15

    what really killed it , was a lack of mostior in the snow, no traffic, and cold temps. you know that type that you can just salt forever and it seems like it only effects where cars drive.

    I cant wait till the repair is finished on my truck thats getting liquid for this very reason. spray and salt all in one pass
  9. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

    I hate the cold windy nights where the snow is blowing, half the time the snow would blow right over the parking lot but the salt sitting there acts like a sponge waiting to halt it in its path, but its too cold to melt it. I would have waited as long as possible also.
  10. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,194

    6 am is a little late to me when you knew it had to be done. To me employees are just as important as customers but that's just me. The earlier the salt goes down the better it works. I wouldn't worry about it but don't let it happen again, the guy next door is going to try extra hard to do a better job.
  11. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    that was kinda my idea..i figured why salt it at night , when you might have to in the morning.

    either way i leanred my lesson on this account, we sre just gonna treat it like a zero tollerance on a 24 hours basis regaurdless of if they are open. hopefully i dont have to do it too many times

    as for 6 am. well i will tell you this... i gave them a contrat which they never signed..... they gave me their coperate pre written aggreement....lol basicly , in that agreement its a 2inch contract, with no salt excpet by the manager approval. and i have till 9 AM to preform the work required 7 days per week..... we verbally said that it would be a ZT, but in this contract they gave me , it says that no verbal agreements will be honored...lol and no they didnt attach my contract to theirs...so basicly mine went in the trash, other than the pricing
  12. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    I did a quick scrape on all my stuff that night. I started at 8pm scraped quick and salted kinda heavy. The 810 in bucket mode is a thing of beauty for this as you can scrape only were ya need it :drinkup: We probably had a lil more snow here, but I knew the temps were gonna tank, and on seasonals with salt (and per push) the sooner the better IMO. At 8pm it was 28 degree's out, at 12am it was 16 degree's out. My last account at 11:30pm) had rock salt laying there on the surface, not turning to brine. I checked em all after that and they were getting there.
    Oh and thursday at 9am the guys who salted late and heavy stuff still looked like crap. My stuff was mint :nod: