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Subs and pay rate

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by thelawnguy, Nov 17, 2000.

  1. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011

    John Allin brought up a good subject that I thought deserved a thread of its own.

    What do you make as, or what do you pay subcontractors? Type of equipment? I recieved a cold call yesterday from a local construction co. offering me $50 per hour to plow small parking lots with my 3/4 ton pickup and 8 foot plow. I must provide my own insurance and fuel. 6pm to 6 am, no days-the co does not plow during the day except for one truck to keep lanes open. I passed, I already have commitments of my own but wonder how this deal rates with other areas?

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    $38-$45 / HR. here, for a truck with straight blade only. V's and trucks with back blades will get a little more. Subs carry insurance and pay their own fuel costs.

    JD PLOWER PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 751

    Here in Boston the rate for 8'plow is 45-55$ (usually).
  4. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    The point Mr. Allin implied was the more plowing you do, the less the pay per HOUR, but obviously the more hours you get in.

    If you got paid $50/hour as a sub and could get in 500 hours/winter, that'd be a great job. Most places that have the 500 hour winters probably pay less.

    On the flip side of the same token, if you only get 50-80 hours or so per winter and they're some real heavy snows, then $50/hour is real cheap.
  5. Toddppm

    Toddppm Member
    Messages: 35

    I got a letter addressed to my bus. from a snow removal co. back in sept that i've been holding onto just in case: We pay:$65/hr for trucks w/plows
    70/flat beds w/our sander
    95/trucks w/10 or 12' sanders
    60/skidsteer loaders
    75/back hoes and front end loaders
    22/ for sidewalk labor per man
    Paid within 1 week max.
    Not bad except i wouldn't think anyone would take a skid/backhoe or loader out for that cheap, you never know though lot of plumbers etc. around w/ nice equip. just sitting around
  6. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Bill, what the offered is typical and on target for CT. Its about what I pay subs, but not what I would sub for, if that makes any sense. I know what JA pays his subs, and no one would plow for that here, but we dont push alomost everyday as they do.He has said some of his subs will pay off a new truck in one season of sub work for him. Also ask him some of their tactics for waking up sleepy subs at 2 am.
    You will be happy you dont live next to that sub.
  7. still god of all plowers

    still god of all plowers Junior Member
    Messages: 1

    Subs should never be payed by the hour. When we had subs working for us, they were payed per account.
    Pay by the hour the encourages the operator to slack off, and I dont pay for slacking. We had the route supervisor pushing the drivers big time. We demanded production.
    On a 150.00 per push account we would pay the sub 35% of that, and we took the 65% for ourselves. So the faster they went the more money they made.
  8. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    That works fine for small accounts, not larger ones.

    On heavy snows you really sap their incentive.
  9. CCSwanson

    CCSwanson Member
    Messages: 38

    All I do is sub contract work (just got my route today)I get payed 55.00 per hour in the Cincinnati area. 55.00 seems to be the max in this area. Contractor supplys ins but I now have my own as well just in case.
  10. bdemir

    bdemir Member
    Messages: 89


    What do you think winter is going to bring us this year in michigan. I feel that it is going to be a bad one.
  11. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    bdemir, that's the line you tell your CUSTOMERS, not me!

    I don't buy those predictions for 1 minute. Sure El Nino and La Nina make a difference, but I don't see anything that would indicate this season will be anything far from normal.

    That sounded a little critical, but that's MHO. Time will tell, you may be exactly right.

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    We got hit hard in the Western U.P. on Monday. 10-12 inches in 24 hours. Seemed great again! Lets hope it keeps up!

    <img src="http://www.geocities.com/tfrontjes/FORD94.JPG">

    <img src="http://www.geocities.com/tfrontjes/2ford94.jpg">

    [Edited by PINEISLAND1 on 11-18-2000 at 02:34 AM]
  13. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Wheres the plow??????

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    I was deer huntin'- 500 miles from home!

    Sure was tough to sit in the woods with snow falling and not get really nervous. I hate to admit it, but I called home about every four hours to check-just in case!
  15. landscaper3

    landscaper3 Senior Member
    Messages: 309

    We are sub-contracted out through some builders and construction companys. On commercial we get $75.00per hr per truck and residential get per driveway. Some of our bigger shopping centers and mall we sub-contract out for the job for a flat monthly fee one for instant runs $1650.00 per month and I pocket 150.00 per month on that job, you do this to 8-10 jobs and you get $1500.00 for subbing out and that doesnt include the plowing we do.
  16. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011

    Well we average 12 storms per season here, if it averaged 10 hours per storm(some will be two-inchers) 120 hoursx50=6000, nah its still worth the headache of dealing with my own customers.

    I neglected to say that he said payment 48 hours after the storm.

    Probably be a good deal for a roofer or someone who wont be doing much when it snows anyway.
  17. Greenman2ooo

    Greenman2ooo Banned
    Messages: 107

    I have never understood subbing for someone else. (I though that was why I became a contractor, so I run the show.) This is my first season to add plowing to my services and I will be busy doing what work I've sold as a rookie. My question is why do people work as subcontractors for half (or less)of what work the is selling for?

    I'd gladly set subs up with work, but not gladly be a sub, much like Dino was saying. It just seems if I was running my business well, I would be able to afford to add new plow vehicles each year rather than adding subs.

    Maybe I'm taking my sales abilities for granted. It seems like even in a terrible area with low seasonal snowfall totals, selling snow removal is easy. It seems other contractors around here must just expect their customers to call them. Showing initiaitive and being professional has gone a long way for me.

    I understand how subbing could be right for some guys, but think most anyone could keep one truck busy in his first season in my market with a little knocking on doors. My intention wasn't to insult those of you doing sub work, just was wondering what motivates a sub to abandon the idea of selling his/her own time. Also, maybe I'll motivate someone to go out and sell the work themselves.
  18. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    Subbing works for those who generally work another job and can't commit the time/resourses to a full time plowing business.

    Many of my subs reported earning MORE working for me than when they did it on their own.

    It works especially well for those who work a regular job and can only plow certain hours.

    As in your case, if you're an agressive seller with an existing business with existing customers, it wouldn't make sense to sub. But for many guys, it's the way to go.
  19. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    The main we reason we USE subs is that it is very hard to find operators for your own trucks without the truck soon becomming junk. Subs usually take good care of their own equipment. Second, if you land the larger accounts, subs with loaders and backhoes are fairly easy to find, so you buy the pusher and pay them to use it. As far as why subs sub, you will have to ask them, I have one this year that is in the navy and one season he may be out to see or even transferred, so subbing works great for them. I also have subs that work state jobs with great pay and bennies, and they plow during off hours. Seems the state shuts down as fast as schools do, but they dont dont want the hassel of being responseable.
  20. jason2

    jason2 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 117

    I'm in eastern Washington. I'm all set up to sub for a large contractor for $47/hour.

    Reasons I'm being a sub instead of doing it on my own:
    1) This is my first year with a plow. I'd like to get my feet wet.

    2) I have a full time day job.

    3) No time to chase down accounts on my own.

    4) With only one truck, I don't have to worry about servicing my own accounts should I break in the middle of a storm.

    I do have experience plowing with backhoes, and tractors with front end loaders. The market that I will be subbing in is 40 miles away. My day job is exactly half way between home and where I will be plowing. So when I'm done plowing, I can go directly to my day job, then on home. Going to feel out the market in my home area, and if there is enough interest. If so I may dump the day job.

    By next winter I hope to be fully on my own. But for now, subbing seems like the best option for me.