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sub- no contract

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by mpgall26, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    Given this rediculous winter so far, I agreed to sub for a company that does a local commuter station. Big company that does a ton of properties. I discussed whether they wanted me to take the contract or work for them, they want me to work for them and pay me $50/hr. I told them OK since its so close and will occupy time between other contracts, but no sand goes in my spreader for $50/hr. They say they sand/salt themselves. After meeting with them, I'm confident I won't see anyone else there plowing, nevermind sanding. Red flag is they are gonna send W9 and there were no mention of contracts. I'm inclined to think the burden is totally on them liability wise, I never agreed to be there and if I did, what was agreed is heresay right??
    I know they are gonna try to get me to sand/salt since its stupid to send another truck when I have a spreader. Then what $$ should I say.
    Most important, do I have any liability concerns?
  2. sectlandscaping

    sectlandscaping Senior Member
    Messages: 315

    If you dont give them a certificate of insurance I believe it all falls back on them. I could be wrong.

    I just told a guy I needed a w-9 and proof of insurance and he hung up on me. I guess he wants to work under the table.
  3. John143

    John143 Senior Member
    from NEPA PA
    Messages: 254

    I would be-careful of that company. I too just picked up a new seasonal account a few days ago. I was alittle concerned at first because it is already so late into the season for these types of accounts but after talking to a few people and getting all of the paper work faxed to me with 5mins of me being awarded the contract I feel alot better about it know. Just make sure you get some kind of a contract off of them. At least saying what you are responsible for. I would not give them a certificate until such time.
  4. John143

    John143 Senior Member
    from NEPA PA
    Messages: 254

    Had the same happen to me with a new sub a few weeks back.

    Funny. I was looking at craigslist a few hours ago. Amazing how many trucks are for sale on their with what looks like next to new plows all strapped on the front!

    Only $7000.00 OBO comes with brand new fisher plow!! :laughing: I guess some are coming to terms that this isn't a turn truck & plow key business. :salute:
  5. superdog1

    superdog1 Senior Member
    Messages: 257

    Certificate or not, if you do the work, you will be on the hook if there is an issue unless they do not tell them you did the work and decide to eat the claim (Which I highly doubt). The lawyer will sue you first, them second. Since you do not have them listed as a named insured on your policy, your limits of liability will have to be exhausted, then they will go after the people who subbed you. Sometimes they will go after both parties at once. There are a LOT of variables.

    Verbal contracts can be binding in most places, so even though it isn't written down, you still agreed. The main problem is that it is your word against his/her, so who is lying if you get to court, Lol??? It really can never be proven unless you have been doing the same job for many years and you do/say or follow the same pattern every time for the last 5 etc.

    While I am NOT a lawyer (and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), I have been involved in quite a few insurance claims over the years and this is what I am basing my information on. I honestly can't believe a big CO like the one you are dealing with would actually go out on a limb and agree to something like this? (No, I do not think you are lying!!!). Make sure that you write down every thing you talked about at the end of every call, along with the date, time and name of the person you talked to. This could prove to be very valuable in the future if the good ole' "poop hits the fan"

    The other negative side to this is that if something goes wrong and they decide not to pay you, you will have no recourse when taking them to small claims court trying to get your $$ they owe you. I had a client plow a bunch of lots for Verizon a few years ago. He signed a 1 year contract with them and at the beginning of the second snow season, he went out and plowed the lots for the first 3 snows. When the check never came, he called and asked where it was? Verizon never paid him, as he never signed a contract for the second year and it had been awarded to another contractor. The new guy showed up each time to plow and the lots were already done, so he just went home and never said anything to Verizon (collected the $$ though, Lol)

    I guess the moral of the story is ALWAYS CYA, because if you don't, you will lose!!:mad:
  6. sectlandscaping

    sectlandscaping Senior Member
    Messages: 315

    I always have a contract, w9 and COI from contractors. The contract will state if there responsible for walks, salt , etc. I think thats the only way to do business. If I was you I would get something in writing.
  7. mpgall26

    mpgall26 Senior Member
    Messages: 228

    I'm not sure if its in my best interest to ask them to come up with a contract. Raised an eyebrow that someone else does the walks and sand/salt. I would just try to modify one of my contracts, but not really familiar with the sub world. I initially decided to just roll with it and if something goes wrong then I never agreed to anything.
    In all actuality, I should legally be an employee anyway with the General Liability falling on them and the vehicle on me. Not legal to classify me as a sub to plow your lot, your instructions,and your work schedule.
  8. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    Thumbs Up

    I would have at least a contract stating how much and the terms of payment. Otherwise you will never see the $$ until winter is over (really less then 90 days)
  9. seville009

    seville009 Senior Member
    from CNY
    Messages: 877

    The W-9 is just certification by you to them of your information and TIN. They will use it to issue you a 1099-MISC at the end of the year. The W-9 just sits in their files.