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Sub Contracting

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by mike33087, Oct 13, 2007.

  1. mike33087

    mike33087 Senior Member
    Messages: 555

    heres my situation:

    my uncle and i both own landscaping companies ( they are seperate/ different business names) and in the winter we team up and plow together so that way we can cover more ground and make more money! well the problem is that this year i had my truck lettered, and my uncle seems to think that it will be illegal for me to do work where he is contracted to do it under his busniess name. hes telling me that he will buy me magnets to put over my beautifully lettered truck, if it was a pos id have no problem but im not gonna ruin my **** for him. im pretty sure its not illegal as long as we sign a contract or w/e that i am his subcontractor and so forth. i have a feeling that he is worried that people will see my lettering and dump him for me, which i would never do to him cause hes family.... i dunno but we've been biatching at each other about this for a few days now and i wanted some insight from you guys cause im pretty sure im right....
  2. gcsupraman

    gcsupraman Senior Member
    Messages: 110

    I seriously doubt a customer is going to pay attention to the lettering on the truck when their driveway is being plowed - and they probably can't read it anyway in a snowstorm.

    I think your uncle is over-reacting.
  3. iceyman

    iceyman 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,925

    whose gonna be looking for the name on the side of the truck as your plowing there lot at 5 am. and if a customer asks just says the two companies team up to better serve you. wesport
  4. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Does it really matter whether you're right or wrong? He's got a problem with it, so move on and get more of your own accounts. That's why you got it lettered in the first place, isn't it?
  5. mike33087

    mike33087 Senior Member
    Messages: 555

    thats what i said who the hell is gonna notice anyway......

    Mick - lol your right, ive got enough to make it worth my while to plow, but with his accounts added its some serious bank
  6. YardMedic

    YardMedic PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,266

    There's that, AND the fact that it's the perfect "backup" for breakdowns & other problems. I see his concern as unreasonable, and I can't begin to imagine where he gets the crazy idea. And why should he demand that YOU put his magnets on, or is it that his biz is more established? I agree with the idea that noone will notice or much less care at that point. Tell him not to ruin a good thing you both have going on there. By the same token, find more pursuasion skills & talk with him in a professional & positive way to sell your way of thinking.
  7. mike33087

    mike33087 Senior Member
    Messages: 555


    yes his business has about three years on mine, but i would say we are about the same size revenue wise. i plan i talking to him tomorrow to drop the magnet idea, he usually isnt too pursasivie (he has the "im always right: sydrom) but w/e worst comes to worst i'll just do my own stuff.
  8. YardMedic

    YardMedic PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,266

    Business can be like marriage though -- a need for compromise. Sever ties with your uncle, and there goes your best backup when the fit hits the shan. Add to this your limited experience with the whole plowing/business parts of life (ABSOLUTELY not a slam on you or based on anything you've said or done... just based on age). Seniority does not always mean right, but give the guy a little more credit for world/life experience. Knowing NOTHING about you I'm not implying anything, but I don't want to see you take the path of "kids" who know EVERYTHING and end up failing because they're too headstrong, foolish, and immature. To just break off on your own is not only dangerous to your future, it's irresponsible to your client base (something I know will be more apparent the longer you're in the biz). Despite every effort of mine NOT to be condescending, I know I've come across that way. Please know it's not personal, and it certainly is NOT an attack on anything about your biz. I know how tough business is flying solo, and I'm just offering insight from experience. Good luck!!

  9. mike33087

    mike33087 Senior Member
    Messages: 555

    i appreciate it believe me, dont worry about what you say i have thick skin unlike some of the other people my age on this site who fly off the handle at any little mention of age.

    i really dont want to break away from working with him 1. cause hes family, and 2 because we both need each other to make these accounts work, we've been doing it together since last year and purposly acquired lots that are right next to each other or a stones throw away, that way we can work hand in hand. its nice too cause say i loose a bid for w/e reason he'll bid it too so we have like double stab at it lol vice versa. my main concern is that i dont want to ruin the lettering by throwin a magnet over it right before a storm.... and i wanted to see if he was right about it being illegal cause i couldnt find anything about it.... thanks again
  10. Snowpower

    Snowpower Senior Member
    Messages: 636

    My large commercial contract says right in it that no sub contractors can be used.

    Now if I have a breakdown and call in my backup, they will just have to deal and Im sure they will, and may not even realize it happened.
  11. mike33087

    mike33087 Senior Member
    Messages: 555


    i agree that some companies state that clearly in their requests or w/e u wanna call it
    i know for a fact that this place really doesnt give a crap whos truck it is or what it looks like as long as it plows lol. i honestly think that he believes that somehow people will call me because they see my truck and he will loose work... i hope that hes not that untrusting, i mean seriously if someone called me and said " ow i sau plowing so and so's lot u do a good job could you bid my lot" id tell them well i plow for so and so landscaping your gonna have to call him, cause either way its money in my pocket cause if he gets it then i plow it, im not gonna steal potential work from him
  12. iceyman

    iceyman 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,925

    any update on your crazy uncle? :gunsfiring: :jester:
  13. Brant'sLawnCare

    Brant'sLawnCare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,756

    We live across the street from a medical complex. One company ex. Joe's Trucking plows it, that I know for a fact. However, I always see them or ex. Jim's Lawn Care there plowing it. Same kind of situation. Nobody really cares who does it, as long as it gets done.
  14. mike33087

    mike33087 Senior Member
    Messages: 555

    hes kinda dropped the situation, i told him just to have like a small one i can throw on the sides like comcast does sayin like " contractor for so and so" next to mine, cause i threw the whole well what about my customers, and have u ever tried to stick a cold stiff magnet to a frozen truck shiiit so more than likely there will be no signage from him on my truck
  15. mrbrickman

    mrbrickman Senior Member
    from montana
    Messages: 138

    yeah be careful, large contracts or certain anal mgmt companies will state that no aspect of the contract or "work" may be subcontracted

    learned the hard way at brickman, we all have subs, most brickman branches are 90 precent or more subs which can be tricky when dealing with these restrictions, which we try to avoid, we go to extents of buying brickman magnets etc for our subbies

    last year we got stiffed on a 9500 dollar snow bill after one of the old people at a HOA noticed a sub truck with different lettering, straight out called the management company which is, supposed to work with both the contractor and association, and ended up stiffing brickman after saying we dont want to pay because you subbed this work and we feel it wasnt satisfactory to pay.

    just be careful, id be more worried about something such as this then....you stealing work from your family.. get the work done, get paid with as little drama as you can, if your uncle is being someone elses sub and is nice enough to be throwing you some work, it would look best if you worked under his name
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2007
  16. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    It sounds like there were probably other issues besides a subs truck there.
    Getting stiffed usually means the work was unsatisfactory, and they had a good excuse not to pay.
    If your contract YOU signed specifically states no subs why would you put a sub there ?
    Did the management company get paid ?
    I wouldnt try to scare the kid off. IMO Usually the only reason a NO SUB clause is added is do to getting burned in the past from company's with Salesman that over promise and under produce, or flat out cant produce.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2007
  17. mike33087

    mike33087 Senior Member
    Messages: 555

    BTW there is no stipulations in the contracts about sub contracting, i plowed all of these places last year before i lettered the truck and there was no problems. as of now everything is good and there is no need to worry about covering it up, thanks for your help guys
  18. mrbrickman

    mrbrickman Senior Member
    from montana
    Messages: 138

    in this case it was just a sly management company, if the management company got paid and diddnt pay us it would be no suprise, ive had conversations with other contractors on some of the sites and heard about mgmt employees getting new kitchens in their own houses at the cost of a few more pennies a linear foot of gutter being charged to the HOA, so this mgmt company looks for a way out anywhere they can,

    one time got called in to "take care of the place" and snowblew 3 sidewalks before the board pres stopped and said i meant plowing only, then 4 hrs later had complaints why did this walk get done and mine diddnt from other residents, got forced to finish all the walkways for free
    why? we have lots of business with this comany and they like to make us work harder because we have an ethics system which wont let us go and install a 15k dollar paver patio for the mgmt company employees to ensure a winning bid on a 150k dollar HOA install like some of the other guys do

    wasnt trying to scare the kid off, just eveyone being happy and making the green from the white is what its all about