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Sticker Shock

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by ADMServices, Oct 10, 2000.

  1. ADMServices

    ADMServices Member
    Messages: 43

    Yeah !

    Well, I have been out shopping for new trucks this week, and wow are these things a lot of money. We are looking for a 7 yard dump truck with a 10' blade and an under the gate spreader. So for we have gotten quotes back from Ford and GMC. Waiting on International and Freightliner.

    What is everone else using? Any suggestions for the new rig? Big trucks are sooo cool !

    OH, I have been told that to run the spreader live hydro. line is the way to go. I have also been told by a different person that a Hot Shift PTO is the way to go. Anyone know what the pros and cons are?

    Thank you,
  2. snow

    snow PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 1,002

    I hear ya

    I just drove an International 1900 series CDL beater w/ airbrakes at miketechs shop. that was fun, even though i only drove it from outside into a bay. Freightliner offers more tranny/engine combos, and Internationals are good trucks. The state of CT has all new Freightliners and Internationals. I don't know wether to recommend stick or auto. one thing you might want to do is look at different plows and sanders for it. you want a central hydraulics system on it (help here Alan). I'd go for an electric clutch pump, dezee makes one and Muncie does also. these pumps can work all the time, and seem better. You turn it on with the flick on a switch. depending on plowing- get a big plow, like a Viking, Henderson, Valk,etc. for an undertailgate spreader, look at a stainless steel one for around $2400. geoff will probably steer you towards a 10' fisher and v-box. i think on big trucks, you need a heavy duty plow, and a fisher for big stuff isn't the right plow in certain areas. an undertailgate gives you the full capacity of the dump body, and the cost of one is about 1/2-1/3 of a v-box.

    hope this helps,

  3. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Bryan, you need to learn a few things about big trucks and big plows, and front end weight. For a class 6 and 7 trucks, ie F 650, F 750, International 4700, and 4900. Frink blade is too much weight for most class 6 and 7 trucks front ends (its the same reason why ya don't put a 9' plow on a 1/2 ton truck). Granted a Frink plow is very tough, you can't kill the beast, however it will destroy a truck that doesn't have the font end to handle it. Yes with a lighter duty plow (fisher, western, meyer, ect) you may have to replace you moldboard after 10 years of hard use, i don't know maybe it will last longer (than 10 years, have had one long enough to know for sure). However i would rather replace a moldboard after 10 years, then destroy the front end every 5 years.

    Class 8 trucks, Ie Ford L 9000s, International 4900 ( may be a heavy class 7) International 5000i series are class 8. I am not sure on chevy's models, which is class 6,7,or8, so i won't speculate. However these larger trucks, have the front end to handle a Frink or other brands of heavy duty plows well.I have been told by a Frink dealer, that you can put their plow on a Class 6 or 7, but the truck won't be liken life. This is why a Fisher MC or Western Pro Plow, or even the Meyer Heavy weights, work well for class 6 or 7. Bryan, just don't give someone the wrong advice, you know a lot, but there ya still have a lot to learn, just like everyone else.

    Yes, when i replace one of my L 9000s, i will buy a 2 axel truck to replace it, for my private roads. It will be a heavy truck just like the L 9000, with a Frink Plow and wing, double acting body, and all the toys. However the Price tag today is just shy of 100K. A Frink blade, not counting hydro, lift frame, frame kit, lights, controlls, is 6K just for the blade. So why don't i use one of my L 9000s now? They are all tri axels.

    Ok This is what i have for big plow trucks:

    2 F 650 Under CDL
    Both have 10' Fisher MC Plows, Video cameras, on spot chains, auto, and the cat engine. My 2000 Bought last fall, has a low profile body (sides i think are 18" tall) this truck has a V-box spreader. My other 2000 F 650 bought this summer, has a under the tailgate spreader run off a central hydro system with electric valves (this truck also has a standard size body). Now the plow currently is run off the fisher electric pump, however if the pump fails or has probles, i can run the plow off the central hydro system in a matter of mins ( its all wired, and piped for a plow).

    My 750 (requires cdl), bought this summer. Is the same exact setup as the F 650 bought this summer, only its a F 750.

    Last year the F 650 plowed very well, and never had a traction problem. I believe Ford's F 650 and F 750 are very good trucks, i like the interior design easy to drive, and a good trans/engine combo. If you going to plow get an auto, no matter what brand truck you buy. The end result is, that everyone of those trucks would work well. However you will have to decide if you want to spend a little more for brand a vs brand b. Don't be afraid to spend a little more for the one you want, because you will have the truck for a long time.

    Oh yea my Fisher 10' had 10 ( i believe it plow an actually 300 miles for the season) miles of road to plow last year, and some lot work. No Problems with the blade, the Fisher 10 and 9 MC's are built tough, a lot tougher than most people think. Plowing roads, and lots, what else are you going to do with the truck? What application wouldn't this blade work well for, ok High speed over 25 mph highway work.

    Sorry for the long post, hope it helps.


    [Edited by GeoffDiamond on 10-11-2000 at 01:31 AM]
  4. snow

    snow PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 1,002

    geoff- i was giving examples of heavy duty plows. i don't know what class of truck he was getting, but i'm thinking with that bid he posted here, that it's gonig to be a big truck. in my area no one runs a 10' meyer/western/fisher. the town runs heavy duty plows. the plow makers make different sizes and weights of plows, so i was giving him advice on different plow brands. i was helping him with brands, not telling him what to get. he never mentioned the class of the truck.

    What class are u looking at andy? it'll help us out a bit more.


    [Edited by ChucksChevyPages on 10-11-2000 at 03:47 AM]
  5. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Ok Bryan, i am not going to get into a [edited], over this, because its stupid. However if he said he was looking at Fords, and getting prices, Then that tells you he is looking at class 6 and 7. Currently ford doesn't build a truck over 33,000 GVW.

    Your town runs heavy duty plows, because they run heavy duty trucks (i have sean the pictures). Those trucks have GVWs in the high 40s to low 50s. They also run at higher speeds, they also have wings (things that aren't avaible for a fisher) Another reason for the private contractor to stay away for a heavy duty plow is this. They often are used with wings, whichs is why towns and state dots buy them. Wings are worthless for most private contracors, they only need the front blade. There is nothing wrong with a heavy duty blade, on the right truck, however most priavte contracts have a tighter budget compared to a dot.

    Only on the same note, i wouldn't strap a fisher 10' on a Class 8 truck.

    Again, i am not trying to start a [edited], just trying to educate you a little.


    [Edited by ChucksChevyPages on 10-11-2000 at 03:49 AM]
  6. n y snow pros

    n y snow pros Senior Member
    Messages: 246

    We have always had great luck with the 4700 series International.Its a proven truck and you can get so many more options when you move into that class 7 or 8 style truck from ligitamate truck manufacturers like frieghtliner and International.Ford can compete in wieght class but thats about it.Last time i checked you couldnt get heated and motorized mirrors on a f550.Dont get me wrong the Ford 550 is a great truck and i wish i had 1 but you get alot more truck with an Internation for less money.We had a 47oo International with a 10ft western and that plow was way to light for the truck which had a gvw of 17900lbs.Yet a guy who plows with us had a Ford 550 with the same plow and that truck definitely felt the wieght of that plow.The 550 worked great its just not a heavy duty type tyruck like typical class 8 builders.
  7. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    One, of the first things i will tell guys when they ask me about a F 550. Is its a F 350 on steroids, and i am not kidding. Yes you get 17,500 GVW, however it is not like a 17,500 GVW international, on a wider frame. It has is good points, like the fact it can get into tight places.

    Like i have said, i have only used the Fisher MC, never a western on a meyer, so maybe a western or a meyer is to light.

    Only the fisher has worked just fine.

  8. Snow Pro

    Snow Pro Senior Member
    Messages: 146

    Blade sizes

    I use a 10' Western on an IH 4600. It's just right. If it were any wider, I'm sure our drivers would clip cars going down the road. If it were any smaller, it would be unproductive.
  9. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    I have 1 10ft western plow on a 16,000 gvw chevy c60,after having that plow I will never have anything but a municiple 11ftr, there is no comparison in the durability.I have an 11ftr mounted an a 31,00 gvw topkick 6500 and have used it on airport runways were the windrows are very large and have had no trouble with this truck at all in regards to ability to push snow. The plow doesn't weight that much more than a 10ft commercial plow and we have had no trouble with our front ends even flinching when the blade is raised.I even had a 11ftr on a Ford F600 sweeper but lack of the ability to add weight made this truck usless but there was never a problem carrying the plow.We will be using 6 11ft truck mounted plows this year and a total of 9, the last three we use on loaders for windrowing and they are standard truck plows,my 10ft western wouldn't last a night under those conditions.
  10. Lazer

    Lazer Senior Member
    Messages: 399

    I guess I'd better not post a pic of my Meyer HM10 (10') mounted on my Dodge W150 (1/2 ton 115" WB)

    I've owned Meyer & Western 10' (not Fisher) and I would get a beefier plow to mount on a Class 6 or 7 truck.

    Having said that, I wouldn't buy a new one (again). With Pro-Techs and Daniels plows, the wide back-plows and the advent of the 4x4 550 class trucks, the snowplow applications for those big trucks is limited.
  11. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266

    Also got to keep geographical locations in mind. I maine we have fairly narrow roads, so taking a 10' on the road is bad enough, even a 9' is hard in some places. You are always wondering the way, your plow is going to plow the esscort in the next lane.

    Digger i bet out in Iowa, the roads are just a little winder, making the transportation of a larger plow fine.

    Weight difference, i figured it out once, between a 10 fisher and a frink, i think it was around 1,000 pounds.

  12. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Well,, I'm not sure what Class they fall into, but around here the towns are running trucks in the 30-33,000 lb GVW range. They're carrying either a one way front plow or a big PA plow and a wing. That is how it has been for years and they tend to run them until they rot, NOT wear out/break. I didn't think you could get a truck much over 40K Gross on six tires and I sure don't see many tandems pushing plows.

    One thing that does seem universal is to add a leaf into the springs on the wing side of the chassis to keep from tilting to that side.

    We've got our share of narrow roads over here too, but even an 11' is only taking a little over 8' when it's angled.
  13. snow

    snow PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 1,002

    Geoff- sorry for the confusion. All i was trying to tell him is that a lot of companies make plows for big trucks. I was looking over my literature collection, and quite a few companies make 10' plows that weigh less than 1800Lbs. Valk, Braun and a few others make plows uner 1800lbs with the same moldbaord height. I don't know for frinks, but no viking plows are under 1800lbs (maybe the pickup ones, but thats it). I was assuming it would be a big truck, so i recommended some big plows. sorry geoff, i didn't mean to sound like a jerk. i was almost banned from here because of my opinions thing, so i can't be humorous here anymore.

    <b>sorry everyone</b>
  14. GeoffD

    GeoffD PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,266


    Look i am not worried about it. However the only thing that upset me a little, was the fact that you didn't seam to be giving me any respect. I don't mean to sound cold hear, but anyone can look at literature and read specs. However i have used this equipment myself, as well as own it, the information i provide is worth more in my mind, that what ever is printed on paper. The reasons are simple, i am not trying to sell anyone a plow, those companies are. I just think some respect should be given for that knowledge.

    I don't want to see ya kicked off, because i want you to be around when you get your first plow. I can't wait to hear all the things you will learn ( and mistakes you will admit on here), from plowing yourself.

  15. Chuck Smith

    Chuck Smith 2000 Club Member
    from NJ
    Messages: 2,317

    Just so it's clear Bryan, you can be humorous without cussing. Remember that.

  16. Alan

    Alan PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,393

    Andy, something to keep in mind is that the plow really should be wide enough so that you're not treading snow with the outside dual all the time. From what I've seen in the specs, a 10' blade won't clear 8' when it's angled far enough to slide snow to the side easily. I'm thinking that most of the smaller plows will only do a 30 deg. angle. The fixed plows are mostly 37 deg. I was at Valk Mfg. on Monday and their plows are quite well made and reasonably light. They have an 11' PA plow that is 36" high and angles to 42 Deg. Clearing width at that angle is 8'2", 9' at 35 Deg angle. Weight is 1685 without headgear. Call Dan Cribari at Valk for information, his number is 717-766-0711, they're in Carlisle, PA. Dan tells me I can get by with a 7,000 front axle with that plow.
  17. SLC1

    SLC1 Senior Member
    Messages: 242

    One of my best friends works for the CT. DOT and says that the Freightliners are throw away trucks. His is only 3 years old and already has rearend and tranny problems. The state buys by low bidder so I guess they get what they pay for. He says that the Internationals are a much stronger truck. But that is only his feelings.
  18. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    I can second that reply regarding CT DOT trucks. I have a friend who also works for DOT and he showed me cab cracks on a truck that had only 5K on the meter. He said he cant wait till they switch back to INTL.
  19. diggerman

    diggerman Senior Member
    from Ames
    Messages: 700

    Ok I'm willing to see the cab as problem for Freightliner but the tranny and rear end are same components used in every other truck in the same class. The DOT may spec inferior products but that is not relevant to Freightliner as a brand because they are available with what ever you ask for. Truck of the size you are talking about have some chasiss diffs but mostly only in configuration not in components,what you end up buying is cab/comfort and service(this does not apply to Mack because they manufacture their own engines and transmissions)everything else is what ever your product prefrence is.
  20. ADMServices

    ADMServices Member
    Messages: 43

    I would like to thank everyone for all of their insight in this matter.

    I did recieve the bid from International today, and it looks very good compared to the others i have recieved (auto trans, DT engine, live hydro). I am really leaning twards International at this point, and will be going to the dealer tomarrow to look at a few trucks that are already built.

    Alan, thank you for those numbers. I will try to give them a call tomarrow.

    Thanks again,