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snow management

Discussion in 'Business Fundamentals' started by dave korp, Sep 3, 2004.

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  1. dave korp

    dave korp Junior Member
    Messages: 1

    anybody do work for smg am getting run around for accts past due i know it is late but felt they were up front now have heard some disturbing trends
  2. AintNoFun

    AintNoFun Senior Member
    Messages: 175

    i'll pm you about our experiences with them.......
  3. plowed

    plowed Senior Member
    Messages: 344

    repairs to the site that need to be made (BS), cash flow problems, I've heard it all. Now this guy Bob Cohen is supposed to be working with them. The latest I heard is that we're getting paid by the end of this month. I'll hold my breath...
  4. Foz

    Foz Senior Member
    Messages: 119

    Snow Management Group??
  5. ikold

    ikold Junior Member
    Messages: 13

    SMG - Good luck getting paid

    They have owed us more than 20,000 since Feb and we have yet to see a dime. They have sent sevral letters over the last 7 months each one saying "don't worry we will pay you soon". Than they hire a "turn around" specialist to handle the repayment.
    The moves they are making don't instill allot of confidence in their ability or desire to repay. We are not a big business and 20,000 is allot to us.
  6. gslam88

    gslam88 Senior Member
    Messages: 168


    Although I don't know it to be true I hear that SMG might be filling a chapter 11 sometime

    from another post on an alternate site this is what I hear

    Yes...I believe it is the same John Allin. I think he's also affiliated with SIMA.
    I can only assume that his company, Snow Management Group, is headed for bankruptcy because when my staff attempts to contact their accounting people...they are being referred to a salvage lawyer. It looks like this "salvage" company is trying to keep us bill collectors at bay until they can find a way to either come up with the cash or file for bankruptcy.
    You mentioned hiring an attorney. I tried to be patient but we finally decided to break down and pay a good attorney a HEFTY retainer to go after Snow Management Group.
    I hope that they intend on paying all of their bills...but at this point it appears that the best we can do is get a judgment and wait for them to liquidate their assets.
    The thing that really makes me angry is that John Allin continues to go around the country and charge people to listen to his seminars and business strategies.

    Anyway....I'll keep you guys posted. "

    I have hear similar stories from different sources about this issue... if it was just 1 or 2 sources then it could be just unhappy contractors or subs.. but I have hear from a good number of different sources from different parts of the country
  7. AintNoFun

    AintNoFun Senior Member
    Messages: 175

    def. keep us posted.... i wonder why john allin hasn't posted?
  8. jax1013

    jax1013 Senior Member
    Messages: 114

    re; CVS thru SMG

    Spoke w/ SMG today they are looking for a quote for a cvs about 15 min from my house...i had 6 of their stores in 2003 and got paid very well...although it took a good 45-60 days...2004 lost out to a low bidder...(shocker)..seeing the last couple of posts should i even bother.. i dont want to service if i'm not going to get the check...what to you think.. if they are as bad as people say we should all stick together and let them sit knee deep in the "white gold"...Thanks for your opinon...

    from SE PA
    Messages: 38


    Sorry I posted twice! Do not know what I did?
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2004

    from SE PA
    Messages: 38


    We have been dealing with SMG for 4 YRS. I have nothing but great things to say! The problem some of you might be having is the contracts, They are long and detailed! They follow them to the letter! If you do not "check in" with in the alloted time, You will not get paid! No INSURANCE No Pay

    In there RFP It is stated If you cannot live up to "There Conditions" DO NOT BID THE WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    P.S. SMG has never written me a check!!! They come from the contract holder! SMG is the management company, They only audit and then forward the invoice!
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2004
  11. North Country

    North Country Senior Member
    Messages: 141

    Some checks do come from SMG and some from the client, it depends if they are managing the account and you are the service provider or SMG holds the contract to service the account and you are a sub for them. - michael
  12. Foz

    Foz Senior Member
    Messages: 119

    Glad to hear some good on this thread, after having met John, I find it hard to believe that he is in trouble. Although we haven't worked with him, I would tend to believe that there are some unresolved contract issues if there are people not getting paid.

    We have worked for & still work for several customers that we were warned not to because of nonpayment. The real secret is many large "boxes" like Toys R Us, Lowe's, Dentco, etc. and I assume SMG are adament about the paperwork and if is not completed you will NOT get paid.

    If you can't make the commitment to complete your necessary paperwork then you shouldn't get paid. We require paperwork from our subs as well, no paper, no check it's that easy.
  13. plowed

    plowed Senior Member
    Messages: 344

    Foz, you make a good point with regard to having the necessary paperwork and insurance. However, we have done everything as per the contract and as they requested. Still, no payment. As far as I'm concerned, they were in breach of contract when they were very late with our first payment.
  14. PSDF350

    PSDF350 Senior Member
    Messages: 577

    then why did you keep plowing for them. if it was another account with bus or resident would you have if not why did you.

    PRODUCTIVE P. M Junior Member
    Messages: 3

    Nothing But A Plessure.

    Last edited: Oct 3, 2004
  16. plowed

    plowed Senior Member
    Messages: 344

    PSDF350 - We kept going as a good faith effort to uphold our end of the contract.

    Productive PM - glad to hear you've had a good experience with them, but I assure you, we did nothing wrong. And I know for a fact that the other contractors we worked with through SMG did nothing wrong either. One contractor we worked with is owed $53,000.00 and another is owed $250,000.00

    We all did what we were contracted to do. I am a professional and I run my business in a professional manner.
  17. PSDF350

    PSDF350 Senior Member
    Messages: 577

    i still say why if they weren't holding up to there end of the contract why stay? if it was a regular customer would you have kept plowing?
  18. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,253

    Speaking for myself, I would continue to plow for someone for a period of time if they were late paying. It would depend on my 'feeling' on how long a period that would be.

    A few years ago, one of our largest accounts sold to another property management company in Dec\Jan. There was a disagreement between them on who was going to pay for the Dec billing. We were caught in the middle of a customer who always paid on time and one we had no history with. I didn't care who was paying, I just wanted my money. Within about 6 weeks it was worked out, we had our money and last October\November this company spent about $20K with us for landscaping upgrades.

    What would have happened if we just shut off service? I'm not sure, just glad we didn't.

    There is also a difference between late pay and slow pay and also between slow pay and someone trying to screw you out of your money. We have several customers that despite our contracts requiring payment in 30 days, pay in approx 40-45 days. I do not send them a late charge every time because they are very regular but technically late.

    Productive, I think that is a very generalized statement that you made. We worked 'for' SMG last year and also had good dealings with them. BUT, we were paid directly by the customer not SMG. We were paid 'late' by SMG's contract standards the first time as well, so did we do something wrong?

    I would also say that it is slightly ignorant to say that just because someone did not get paid, they did something wrong. We also work for Worldcom\MCI. When they went bankrupt and we did not get paid, did we do something wrong? No, we didn't get paid because there was mismanagement at the corporate level, not because we didn't perform our work according to the contract.
  19. nocando

    nocando Junior Member
    from NH
    Messages: 16

    S M G

    All I have to say to everyone is that SMG, even though they have hit the skids so to speak, I haven't seen anyone of you other contractors even make an attempt to preform work on the scale that John Allin has. All large companies that grow too FAST suffer growing pains. I've plowed for over 25 years, I worked for other large contractors in the North East, I will follow John Allin and work for him, his ideas and philosphies work, he just needs to get the systems in place, I can see SMG rising out the ASHES and enveloping everyone of your naysayers.
  20. SkykingHD

    SkykingHD Senior Member
    Messages: 368

    Centralized bill paying

    All this working for one snow management company thing is about one thing, making bill paying more efficient for the client. I feel this works for purchasing of materials. I also feel this won't work for services. When you are 3rd in line to get money it stands a real good chance of getting lost. To see in Plow-site.com where many got stiffed for large amounts of money, well this puts up a red flag for working for a "management group". They should change name to "mismanagement group".

    I think one company supplying toilet paper to a large company will work and the company can get a discount without a loss in quality how ever in the snow removal and salting service area, everyone stands a real good chance to lose. How can you manage snow removal in Akron Ohio from Erie PA? Someone is going to lose.
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