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Sima ??

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Kramer, Oct 1, 2005.

  1. Kramer

    Kramer Senior Member
    Messages: 386

    Just wondering if any, or how many, of you people belong to SIMA.

    I looked at their website but couldn't figure out any real benefit. Things like a break on towing, supplies, or whatever don't really mean a lot to me.

    Does it help any of you get more business?? Has anyone ever even asked if you're in it?

    If you're in it, it must have some value to you.... what is it????

  2. karl klein

    karl klein Senior Member
    Messages: 557

    i used to be a member it was nice but then they raised the rates and i was one of many who decided to leave. it is a great organization and i still get some requests today from my membership on bids.
  3. LB Landscaping

    LB Landscaping Senior Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 324

    I was wondering the same thing. Its been brought up before but I've never seen anyone post some real examples of why to join, mostly vague comments.
  4. SnowGuy73

    SnowGuy73 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 24,870

    Ditto over hear, great group of people but it was getting kinna spendy... payup
  5. Big Dog D

    Big Dog D PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,134

    I have belonged for about 4 years. They bring professionalism and encourage further growth and development of the industry and it's members. By belonging you get leads to bid on jobs that only members can bid on because the clients are looking for true pros.

    Buld the extra cost of membership into your pricing it's worth it in my opinion.

  6. mrplowdude

    mrplowdude Senior Member
    Messages: 315

    A true professional should be part of SIMA. I joined almost 3 years ago and it was worth it to me. I tell everyone that my company is proudly part of SIMA and then they know that I take snow seriously.
  7. Young Pup

    Young Pup PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,522

    You can be professional in different ways. To be part of a group and that makes you a professional I just don't agree. Sima doesn't do the work you do the work, they don't go out and make the bids for you, they don't answer the phone calls for you. They don't provide the one on one contact with the customer. You do. You either present yourself as professional by your conduct, your demeanor, and your handling of any problems. Yes, I am sure you might get the opportunity for getting more bids but how many more is the question? Just my .02 here.Also the their fees are pretty high as mentioned before.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2005
  8. mrplowdude

    mrplowdude Senior Member
    Messages: 315

    I didn't mean it like that, what i meant was that no matter what you are doing or looking for everyone has an assocation. Like resteraunts, banks, schools. It just is another step showing your are committed the best. i am not saying that it makes you a professional but is a great tool to help your business.
  9. Kramer

    Kramer Senior Member
    Messages: 386

    I think their site says about $270 fee. The other thing I noticed was a very long multi-hour exam.

    I'm still wondering how much additional work anyone has gotten because of them. I know someone said that they got prefered customers but I find that hard to swallow. Not to knock the post, but it seems the proof is in the pudding in snow removal...the customer knows either way after the first storm and then you back it up after each other storm. Professional means a good job on time.

    Being part of a group just to go along with credentialism is against my better judgement. I'm not saying SIMA is bad, I'm just looking for concrete testimony on more than a company line.

    On the surface it sounds like a couple guys got together to form this thing, but the substance of the whole thing escapes me. Collecting a fee, setting up some training and offering a newsletter is great, but in fact, that works more for the two guys that set it up than for the participants.

    Which customers asked you if you were a member of a club when they wanted their snow removed????

    Don't mean to be negative but I'm so tired of credentialism that I could puke. Most people with the biggest credentials can't do squat. This is in all areas I've noticed. To find the biggest loser, find the one with the most letters after his name.
  10. Big Dog D

    Big Dog D PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,134

    It was et up by one man John Allin from Eire PA. I belive it is a non-profit group. It's not about the money it's about learning, learning the easiest way possible, by other peoples mistakes. It's about networking. It's about knowing what's new, while it's still new. It's about seeing what works for other people in other parts of the country that may work for you. If all you are learning is comming from trial & error, or watching "the other guy in town", and if you can't or wont part with the $170 to join, then I want you as my competition! :) :waving: :drinkup:
  11. plowed

    plowed Senior Member
    Messages: 344

    Apparently it's about eating crow too
  12. Big Dog D

    Big Dog D PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,134

    Are you referring to his company"s fall?
  13. NJ Plowman

    NJ Plowman Senior Member
    Messages: 794

    SIMA sounds great but they price their membership starting at revenues of a quarter of a millian dollars for $170.00. What about the little guy with one or two trucks with revenues of a few thousand dollars? The guy making $8000.00 a season doing a few driveways is paying the same as the company making a quarter of a million dollars! To me, that's ridiculous... :eek:
  14. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,249

    Big Dog D, correction. It was not started by John Allin alone. There were a group of contractors that were invited to meet at his location to start SIMA. There were between 6-10, I don't remember the exact number.

    The major goal of SIMA is to increase and promote the professionalism of the snow and ice management industry. Those who have said so are correct, being a member doesn't mean squat. That being said, I believe it is a great organization that is going through some growing pains. (If you want my opinion on that, PM me). Are they perfect? No. Is it worth the cost? Yes, if you put work into it. I have been to 3 Symposiums and a couple of the Regional Training Seminar. These were fantastic learning opportunities. They were outside the membership fee, but worth every penny. Like was said, being on the cutting edge is worth it to me. Networking is another great benefit. Where else can I call up another contractor someplace else in the country and get their help on equipment, employee issues, business management, etc.

    The multi hour test is only if you want to become a Certified Snow Professional. Not if you just want to be a member.

    As plowed (John) is aware, it appears that SIMA is distancing themselves from the disaster that SMG has become. This is my opinion, I do not know this for fact, but I'm not stupid, either.

    It is not for everbody, but I believe it to be worthwhile for my company.
  15. Mike Nelson

    Mike Nelson Senior Member
    Messages: 637

    Hello to all,

    My name is Mike Nelson and I am a board of director for SIMA. I have been a member since 1999.

    Mark has hit the nail pretty much on the head. We were formed by a group of 10 contractors that put money up to get SIMA started. You can probably do a search and find out a lot more info if needed. All I can say is that my business has grown tremendously by participating in the Regional trainings, the mentoring program, the Symposium, and the opportunity to meet and talk to contractors from around the country. Yes sometimes you may get a lead from the SIMA office, but that is not our main focus.

    One of our goals at SIMA is to educate the customer on proper snow and ice management. Also to promote professionalism to the industry. We just hired a new person in the office to help us with this goal.

    Just returned from our Business Retreat in Utah and it was awesome. The Franklin-Covey training is second to none.

    If anyone would like to talk more, I am always available. Feel free to call or email me. 845-831-5700 or mnelson@nysnowpros.com

    Thank You,
  16. M-Pact Snow

    M-Pact Snow Junior Member
    Messages: 27


    My name is Fred Marcum and I have recently become a member of SIMA. I am (for right now) the little guy. When I found out about SIMA I was scepticle but became a member. I took advantage of thier mentor program and it was a very great business decision on my part. The knowledge I gained on the stupid little stuff that you dont think about has truely payed off. I also obtained the available contracts and human resorce forms and have incorporated them into my business.
    As most people have has questions about the benefits, if we all get together and educate the public, we could all but banish the lowballers. This can and should be in the public eye and become an industy standard
  17. Kramer

    Kramer Senior Member
    Messages: 386


    You said your business grew tremendously.... OK,,,, back to my original questions... how much?? And was it through leads ggotten thru the association or because you picked up marketing pointers?

    ALso, you said you want to teach customers about snow management...who are those customers..members or customers of members??
  18. Big Dog D

    Big Dog D PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,134

    I belive the answer to be both. Kramer you are so sceptical, it probably wouldn't do you any good anyway.
  19. Mike Nelson

    Mike Nelson Senior Member
    Messages: 637


    I will not post my business on forums, but you may call me to discuss. 845-831-5700

    If you don't have $170 to spend, then I believe Big Dog D may be right.

    Good Luck
  20. sgthawkusmc

    sgthawkusmc Member
    Messages: 76

    Sounds like Kramer actually has a brain... Vehicles aside... That's the kind of professional that customers want to deal with. Anyone who is not skeptical while forking over cash is a fool. I want to agree with you Big Dog, you obviously have great taste in cars, but I can't agree in this case...
    I'll gladly talk to you about our '69s anytime though. Dave - SS396 X66
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2005