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Seasonal Gross

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by site, Feb 9, 2001.

  1. site

    site Member
    Messages: 61

    Ive been wondering about this question for a while, but have been afraid to ask(Its uncomfortable to ask friends about how much they make). How much do you guys gross per season? and with what equipment and how many events? I will gross about $80,000 this season with 3 overworked trucks 3 overworked shovelers and one sander. It looks like we'll have about 15 events if it continues. With the payroll and all my troubles mentioned in earlier threads it doesnt seem like enough.
  2. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Are you talking gross income or gross profit ??

    OBRYANMAINT PlowSite.com Veteran
    from ohio
    Messages: 534

    GROSS INCOME 100 k at current point on 50 inches so far

    3 trucks ,3subbed trucks,2 salters.......not sure if i want to go to the next level .....subbing more out....happy where i am at now
  4. site

    site Member
    Messages: 61

    Gross income. If it was 80k profit I would be plenty satisfied. I took 3 new places this year and each one was underbid by about a third in my estimation. I know next year to look at how shady places are. All 3 asked for low salt. Low salt plus shade= complaints and icy lots. Next year I'll hit them for all my callback time.
  5. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Hmmmm..... not sure if I should respond to this one.
  6. JCurtis

    JCurtis Banned
    Messages: 862

    Good Idea John, there are probably so many zeros on your gross income figure that we would need a roadmap to find the decimal point!

    No sense in making us all sick!
  7. site

    site Member
    Messages: 61

    Ok John maybe hitting them for callback time is the wrong way to go about it. Maybe a better idea would be to say if you want low salt call someone else. It sure doesn't make me look good to be scraping up ice a week after the storm. I'm probably a lot more vulnerable to liability lawsuits too.
  8. plowjockey

    plowjockey PlowSite.com Sponsor
    Messages: 622

    If you put in the contract that the customer has requested low salt thus allowing for the possibility of ice and liability, and the customer by requesting this takes on all responsibility (or something along those lines) you should be able to cover yourself. I'm no Atty. so be sure to check with one to find the proper way to word it.

    Happy Plowing
  9. Evan528

    Evan528 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 153

    come on john! Now that ya got me thinking.....
  10. Mike Nelson

    Mike Nelson Senior Member
    Messages: 637

    All we need to make is enough to get to Denver for cocktails and Magic covered pretzels :D :D :D

    P.S JA is still counting......
  11. plowjockey

    plowjockey PlowSite.com Sponsor
    Messages: 622

    I heard that JA recently had to replace all the 0 buttons on his keyboard. LOL

    Happy Plowing
  12. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    My "Hmmmmm" wasn't because of your 'callback' comment. The other guys have it right.

    I think you should be charging for going back. If that's the way the contract is written and you have to go back because they are cutting corners - so be it. They may have run the numbers themselves and found that (in their eyes) it is cheaper to have you return than to have you salt more than they are comfortable with. I think you're on the right track.

    As to what our volume is?? Well.... for calander year 2001 it will be 8 figures (before the decimal point) and not including landscape work.
  13. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Many of us have had this discussion before, gross amounts are really subjective. I went and did an install of u edges at a shop that runs 20 trucks. He was on target to gross about 250K for the season. But he keeps 20 fulltime employees plus some PT for sidewalks. Now if the average employee is grossing 500.00 per week, and the winter payroll is about 20 weeks long(the co was in NH), then before overhead his payroll is 192K per year. Add to that the trucks and overhead(and they were reall hard on trucks and equip)then they are breaking even at best.They volunteered all this info with me even asking. I think he was trying to impress me, and get some numbers from me.
    I dont give out my numbers, they are between me and the IRS.
    Snow work affords me a nice living, and helps buy some extra equip for my business.
  14. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011

    Gross is sort of irrelevant, you can gross five million but spend six million then where does that leave you? A little behind the guy who grosses 50k and has only 10k expenses.
  15. John DiMartino

    John DiMartino PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 2,154

    Bill,I'm with you,I'd rather have the simplicity of a smaller operation with less overhead.Most big operators around here live no better than me,they have a lot more worrys and hassles though.They gross 400K a yr and costs then 350K to operate-why bother.better off yourself and 2 other guys ,you can make the same money with 1/3 the overhead.As they get bigger they cant keep track of quality as good,they start losing jobs,by the time they realize it ,its too late,and they are scrambling to fill the schedule,and the payments are still big.Most of my work is from big guys who neglected the little commercial sites,and they lost them.

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    I wanna be the next JAA.

    Small time is nice, but I still am in it for the money. If I didnt want the money then I would have exactly ONE truck, one Boss V, one rear plow, and 4 hrs. of work for each event!!
  17. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    A good business person, who is growing his/her business in a businesslike manner should (and that's a key word) keep their margins the same, or very near - where they were at the lower level.

    Big corporations have stockholders to satisfy. Stockholders want the corporation to make a profit - and a generous one that that. We too (as small businessmen) should follow that ethic. It's not how much money you make as you get bigger - it's the margins you make. If the margins are right, the money follows.

    Additionally, large company owners (and I dare say I might qualify here), don't take out all that the company is making. I make (personally, myself) the same money now as I made 4 years ago, however my "retained earnings" have gone up because we have kept the margin in mind as we grow/grew. Retained earnings (equity) is what keeps companies from going out of business. Eventually the retained earnings get to a point where no one can take the business from you.

    Prime example.... a company with tremendous retained earnings usually doesn't have much debt because they can pay for things on time, don't have to borrow much (or very little) to make capital expenditures - thus reinvesting in the business. Depreciation then becomes a function of asset management in order to increase the bottom line. Once you get to a certain size you begin running the business from a numbers standpoint, and as long as you hire proper people to ensure quality doesn't suffer - you're then running a successful business.

    THIS is what SIMA is attempting to teach people. How to run a business, not how to plow snow.

    Don't get me wrong..... staying small (relatively speaking) has it's advantages. However, being large (and profitable) means that you don't have to decide about whether or not to take a cruise for vacation and skip the Symposium. You'll be able to afford both without worrying about whether or not you'll have enough cash to make payroll.
  18. 4 Saisons

    4 Saisons Senior Member
    Messages: 260

    Good advice Mr Allin, this is why i joined SIMA 3 weeks ago.

    [Edited by 4 Saisons on 02-10-2001 at 03:37 PM]
  19. Mike Nelson

    Mike Nelson Senior Member
    Messages: 637


    I want in when Allin companies goes public.:D
  20. Rooster

    Rooster Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 650

    Hmmmmmm - !!!!!!!!!

    decimal points ?

    I will settle for 8 plowable events right now, worry about decimal points later!