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Salt per 1000#

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by MWM, Nov 21, 2001.

  1. MWM

    MWM Junior Member
    Messages: 13

    I am located in central Ohio. We typically have 10 to 15 snow events per year. Probably half below the usual plowing trigger depth of 2". I am not set up to use bulk salt. My question is: Is there a rule of thumb as to how many square feet an 80# bag of salt will cover for an event of an inch or less?
  2. well, if you figure out what the instructions say on the bag it says to use about 1/2 - 1 lb. per square yard
  3. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    Although, most DOT's will tell you that 250 to 300 lbs. will do an acre of pavement. And, it is true - most contractors us way too much product.

    (now watch the fireworks start over THAT statement)
  4. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    I agree with you John. One of the reasons I have stayed with a mix. I can lay down enough sand to give traction to hilly surfaces and at the same time I have left the perfect amount of salt. I think many people especially around here where straight salt is not the norm lay down too much product thinking it will work better.
  5. SnowGodFather

    SnowGodFather Member
    Messages: 330

    Here come the fireworks John.................

    Although we all know how little it will take, the customers want faster results, Also DOT's use a chem spay with their salt so it will cover the same are with less product. I put about 650# per an acre, and cust. pays for it too.
  6. SnoJob67

    SnoJob67 Senior Member
    Messages: 384

    My experience (limited) with straight salt is that about 250-400# per acre does the trick when temps are as low as the mid 20's. I wouldn't try that with heavy ice accumulations, but with 1/4 inch or less of ice that is sufficient. I try to apply as little product as possible because I get paid every time I spread ice melt. That has proven to be profitable for me. Of course, I have to monitor conditions much more closely since refreezing is likely (and to my benefit).

    I'm not likely to use salt again (other than the few tons we already have on hand) since I have found an alternative that is easier to obtain, eventhough it is more costly. It is still cheaper than bagged, though.

    Our first wintry weather is predicted for the next couple days, so I may get to shake some "salt" for show and have a billable event since temps are predicted to hover pretty close to the freezing mark. Sometimes these light events are taken care of by the salt spread by IDOT and tracked into the lot by cars. Ground temps may not be cold enough to allow accumulation, but we will have to see.

    BTW- JAA, I appreciate the return phone call last week. I found the information I was seeking and did not want to waste your time by calling you back. However, I did want to acknowledge your return call and say "thanks!"
  7. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Not al DOT's use a coated or prewet system with their salt. Alot do, but not all.
  8. John Allin

    John Allin PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,327

    At least it stimulated some thought.
  9. Irrigation

    Irrigation Junior Member
    Messages: 15

    No matter what is decided to be the appropiate rate, if treated with Ice Ban you will use less salt and make more money.
  10. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Not always true Irrigation.
    Alot of guys here get payed per ton of material applied. So if they apply less material they make less money. The private sector is profit orientated. The public sector is safety orientated. Those two ideals dont always meet.
  11. Mike Fronczak

    Mike Fronczak Member
    Messages: 64

    Dino, hit it on the head. Trying to get large property owners to swith & pay more per ton is hard. Especially when you make more in the end doing it their way.
  12. Irrigation

    Irrigation Junior Member
    Messages: 15

    I respect your guys' thought, but we have to look at this from a business perspective. I don't know about you, but I constantly ask my peers what they are charging for services. If you want to remain competitive you have to price things with the current market. So instead of just being fixed on a price per ton try pricing your de-icing per application, just like plowing per push rather than per hour. When the price is set then it's your turn to be savvy by adjusting your input costs with modern technology such as Ice Ban and being more efficient, that is how money is made! I also think that you'll find that most property owners and general managers appreciate fixed costs. All that you need to do to protect yourself is have a clause in your contract that says de-icing prices are subject to change after a certain degree of ice accumulation.
  13. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    What you need to do is go back and do a search and you will find that we are well aware of these matters.
    In fact I do per application myself, however many here especially from the midwest, use per ton rates.
    Many managers have been burnt in the past by people not applying enough material so they can pad the billing with extra apps, or its just the way its been done, so they dont want to change.
    Also, most here also belong to SIMA, if you are not a SIMA member, than I question your business expertise.
    To ask your local competition what they charge for services is like peeing into the wind. All your gonna get is wet. I never, repeat, never give actual numbers to my competition. We speak in generals, but never hard core numbers.
    I dont know if you have used Iceban before or not, but I do not believe the claims of lowering salt usage by 30-50%. I used magic coated salt last year exclusivley until the last two snow events. And while the magic did work into a brine sooner, and had some residual effect, I only noticed about a 10-15% difference in actual salt usage. My temps are pretty moderate, so I dont really need the benifit of -10 degree melting ability.
    And while I do respect you and your business ability, please give the members alot more respect than you have so far. We are well aware of the latest products and how to apply them. John Parker from Taconic Maint, is really an expert on liquid and coated salt products.
    Changing peoples and managers way of doing business is a very hard thing to do. Just because one may offer per application rates, doesnt mean the manager will accept, if they dont accept, then staying with the per ton rate applied may be the only alternative.