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Results wuth First night out with Liquid only

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Mean4x4, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. Mean4x4

    Mean4x4 Senior Member
    from Livonia
    Messages: 100

    We got our first 2 inch snowfall in SE MI tonight. We have decided to go 85% liquid and use rock salt only when necessary. We used a Salt brine with Calcium & Magnesium chloride added. The snow was wet, it was 33 degrees at the beginning and The product did not melt the snow at all. We tried different application rates, different spreads on the sprayer and had very little luck. because there was a solid 2 inches, we decided to fire up the loader and push our lots. We then sprayed after it got to pavement quickly. Our 3rd big site we arrived at ( 1:30am ) was completely frozen with a 1/4" of snow/ice at 28 degrees. We sprayed the entire lot and literally watched it turn to water, surprisingly like or better than rock salt. all in all, I realized liquid will NOT replace rock salt, however its a great tool to have. I also look forward to attempting a pre-treat, because I might have been able to avoid this entire situation had I pre-treated. FYI: another company salted HEAVY the lots next to us, and had terrible results with rock salt. I am wondering could it be the moisture content, combined with higher ground temp? We had 1 inch of rain yesterday at 39 degrees....Any input guys?
  2. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    good, i am glad to hear it worked......but no, it wont burn 2" of snow lol

    if you would have pretreated, it still would not have burnt 2" of snow,

    if youre trying to do what i think you are,.....you may think about pre-wetting youre salt, it'll have the bulk/mass to dilute that much water and will work fast 'cause of the liquid......5-10 gal/ton should do it

    what do you mean by the other company had bad result's with salt only?

  3. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,256

    What rate were you using to burn off 2"?

    Is the liquid you used something you brewed or bought from someone else?

    I'm sure it did melt the snow, somewhat, it had to, but just not enough to be noticeable.

    But to answer your question, yes, the moisture content probably had much to do with it not working as well as you hoped.
  4. Mean4x4

    Mean4x4 Senior Member
    from Livonia
    Messages: 100


    Hard to tell our application rate, I think it averaged around 50 gallons per acre. This mix is 28% calcium 4% Magnesium ( from what im told ). And yes it did melt some of the snow ( probably 3/4". Does liquid work its way from the bottom up? FYI: we have been allocated a certain amount of salt this year and it has to go to two specific accounts that are large, paying top dollar and are high priority. The guy who makes this product stated the moisture content was a major player in the effectiveness of this product. He said this one of the few products that actually work a little better when its colder and dryer. Not sure, like I said this is a learning process for us. The company that used rock salt last night, threw I'd guess 7 tons on a 3 ton drop and it looked 1/2 melted then completely re-froze at 1:00am. So now he's double applying to open everything for the morning. How much melt off can I expect on a pre treat?
  5. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,256

    Hard to give a definite answer if you don't know your rate.

    3/4" is a lot different than nothing at all as stated in your first post.

    Yes, all de-icers work from the bottom up, that is why anti-icing works so well.

    How much melt? Depends on your application rate, the type of snow, UV rays, traffic, etc.
  6. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,707

    Seriously, how would you have pre treated given the scenario of yesterday? Seems to me very difficult to do (many times) to utilize it's effectiveness.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  7. hickslawns

    hickslawns Senior Member
    Messages: 627

    Kinda hard to knock the lot next to yours unless you are taking care of it too. Some managers want it salted, then they close, then you end up salting again prior to open, etc. Every situation is so much different. I would say you are on the right track and rolling. As with anything new, there will be a learning curve. You might be in front of the curve and your competition a bit. Good luck, and I hope it works out well for you. I don't think it will do much on the rain changing to snow events, but hopefully it will reduce your rock salt consumption.
  8. White Baron

    White Baron Junior Member
    from detroit
    Messages: 11

    What product are you using for liquid. I also have switched to mostly liquid this year. I am using Sulli Hot Brine.
  9. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    why did you not plow? was it a time thing or was you just trying to push the limits of the chamicle?

  10. GreenAcresFert

    GreenAcresFert Senior Member
    Messages: 219

    My plan with going mostly all liquid is to plow anything over an inch and then spray so I'm very curious to how that worked out. Good info though, also from SE MI
  11. d&rlawncare

    d&rlawncare Member
    from mi
    Messages: 39

    yeah I was thinking plow the 2" then spray and that would help anything else that came down over the next couple inches. But thats just me thinking not that ive used the stuff.
  12. Mean4x4

    Mean4x4 Senior Member
    from Livonia
    Messages: 100

    We did plow. We used our loader and cleared the lots. This was a sunday night at a lot of retail. So this was a GREAT time to experiment. I am not bashing the guy using rock salt by any means.. I was just making the point that he was not successful either. Plowing then spraying worked VERY well. I am confident that with more trial and error and the use of the right liquid product, this product can supplement rock salt 90% of the time. And yes you're correct on the pre-treat in those conditions, that's why we hesitated. And I feel that we made the right call. As far as melting black ice, the product responded very quick and worked 100%. I know a lot of southeast Michigan guys are switching to liquid products this year, so lets keep this post active and hopefully with input from everyone, we can come to some conclusions and advise each other on effective and non effective methods.
  13. GreenAcresFert

    GreenAcresFert Senior Member
    Messages: 219

    Cool man, thats good to hear.....I plan on doing alot more plowing this year instead of being able to burn off an inch or two with rock salt. I've been a little on the stressed side going to liquid, wondering how well its going to work...good to hear from somebody in the area with good results. I'll also keep up on this thread when I start spraying.
  14. SuperBlade

    SuperBlade Member
    Messages: 62

    at about a half in inch 100% salt brine melted my walks and lots...I apply at 100 gallons an acre...you want pictures...just one second
  15. SuperBlade

    SuperBlade Member
    Messages: 62

    ok well i dont know how to attach images yet but i put up pictures on my profile...ill take a video and put it on youtube after i get done taking a business law exam
  16. Superior L & L

    Superior L & L PlowSite Veteran
    from MI
    Messages: 3,041

    What type of liquid were you using?
  17. SuperBlade

    SuperBlade Member
    Messages: 62

    ok round two was good. temp was 18F applied 100% salt brine to lots @ 100gals a mile. light dusting w/ ice underneath. spray lines melted by time i came around again for opposite lane. little bit smoother tonight but noticed a problem! bottom amounts of brine turned to a sand and cloged my control valve(its only 3/4in coming in, 3/4 by-pass going back into tank, and 1/2in leading to spray bar). im thinking that i should agatate so the settlement stay mixed.
  18. kimber

    kimber Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 140

    Powerjoke..question for you.
    You stated in your post that prewetting the salt with the liquid calcium works, which I understand. What technique are you using? Are you spraying at the spinner, or are you spraying the whole load while it is on the truck?

    Thanks for the help.
  19. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,256

    Have used 2 different liquids?

    We've had this issue when mixing or not cleaning a tank thoroughly from Caliber M1000 to NC2000 or 3000.

    I really wouldn't think there would be any settling in salt brine, but maybe?
  20. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    100% :confused: how are you measureing ......do you mean 100% salinity?

    spraying it as it falls off the auger/chain work's well but damp intreated salt will still freeze in the bin, that's why i spray it as it comes out off end dump, we'll dump a little and spread it into the bin and spray it and do it again, and again and again lol

    but i have one spreader that i set up for pre-wet and i'll use it this year just to cut back even more on salt....that'll give me about 15 gallon/ton of 32% liquid,

    here's a pic

    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009