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Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Cody, Dec 21, 2001.

  1. Cody

    Cody Junior Member
    Messages: 7

    I did a search and did not really get the answer I was looking for. What do you fellas do for rates with truck and plow? Flat per plowing? X amount per year? ect. What does a loader or hoe go for? FYI out here it's per trip, an average truck and plow will turn 650-800 bucks per day. Loader 85 hr hoe 75 dump truck 65 and 10 dollar dump fee per load. If a truck goes hourly it is 65 hr with travel time. Anyhow thanks in advance, calling for 1-3 tonight and more on Christmas eve. Penny's from heaven!

    OBRYANMAINT PlowSite.com Veteran
    from ohio
    Messages: 534

    i am in the same ball park........although here we mostly charge per push
  3. DEISL

    DEISL Member
    Messages: 61

    Cody, we have many different ways of separating the customer from their $. Although , most pushers would not phrase it that way.By the inch, push,and finally THE most lucrative , the hour.I myself would prefer the hourly rate, and stay@ one site during a storm.No traveling up against gramps or soccer moms in a suv, chasing down a loaf a bread.

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    There is no way you will match my hourly wage if you are charging by the hour. A properly bid seasonal contract, or per push will bring us $125 per hour on up to some, that if you figured them out, would be over $200/ hour.

    The best you could hope for here by going hourly is maybe $50-$75 per hour.

    I'll take the $125/hour and the driving between accounts, thanks.
  5. CT18fireman

    CT18fireman Banned
    Messages: 2,133

    My 2 driveway trucks average 6-7 drives and hour or more. At $30 for my cheapest drive that is over $200 right there. I would say they probably average closer to $250 an hour. Commercial is actually a little lower.
  6. DEISL

    DEISL Member
    Messages: 61

    You probably live in a desolate area, here, everybody and their sister has a blade , ratekillers you know .call someone who cares.
  7. thelawnguy

    thelawnguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,011


    To Whom It May Concern:

    Thank You.
  8. DaveK

    DaveK Senior Member
    Messages: 420

    Was just wondering that myself.

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    Just because someone is rude, and has a bad vocabulary doesn't mean they can't make 9FTPILES.
  10. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Thanks, Tom. For some reason that name wouldn't come to mind this morning when I was trying to remember it. I think he set the standard by which all others are compared.
  11. Mike Hughes

    Mike Hughes Member
    Messages: 51

    God, I remember that one too............I'm ashamed to say I live in the same state he did.
  12. Foz

    Foz Senior Member
    Messages: 119


    If you don't like to provide useful information, & only can provide your rude uneducated comments.......Don't be a "guest" & leave.

    To quote the SIMA consumer tips "How to find a winter services provider" as follows

    "1. Per hour/per truck Inexperienced service providers most often use this type of pricing......."

    If the shoe fits, wear it Sir!:D
  13. RCIPlow

    RCIPlow Member
    Messages: 86

    To quote the SIMA consumer tips "How to find a winter services provider" as follows

    "1. Per hour/per truck Inexperienced service providers most often use this type of pricing......."

    If that is what SIMA is saying then I would tell SIMA to politely to stop. Because I am sure SIMA is taking money in the form of dues from many service providers who do charge an hourly fee, as I do. And do you know why I charge an hourly fee on some of my accounts? Because its a church and a school, so sometimes there is a wedding or a service, or a bus trip and you have to be out there for a few hours. None of us are in this business to lose money. If that is Sima's oppinion on hourly charging then I would suggest that any SIMA member who bills hourly cancel theire membership because you dont need anyone bad mouthing ones own business practices. I am so glad I took a good look at joining Sima and chose not to. I am convinced more then ever that SIMA is a waste. And from where I stand I hope their is a very big snow storm real soon, because some, I say some, of you have nothing better to do then be rude or critical of some on this board because you have too much time on your hands.
    Regards to all the other professionals on here.
    Tim McGonigal
    Atco, NJ
  14. jimsmowin

    jimsmowin Senior Member
    Messages: 130

    none of my jobs are hourly other than twp contract.
  15. plowking35

    plowking35 2000 Club Member
    from SE CT
    Messages: 2,923

    Tim I can see why you as one who provides an hourly rate for snow removal may me up set by that quote.
    However, it did say "most often". As we know there are no hard and fast rules to this business. SIMA as a whole is the best and to my knowledge the only trade orginization available to any one who manages snow and ice. One call to the great people who work there would convince you that they slight no one in this industry at all, as long as they are professionals, it doesnt matter how they charge.
    Look at it from this aspect, if I was to call and ask for a price for plowing my lot, if I recieved 4 bids and only one was a per hour price, then I might be scepitcal that the hourly bid may have come from a new person in the business. That is all that line was meant to infer. Alot of large chain stores require per hour pricing. Even the "Great" John Allin of SMG, and Allin Co's, charges per hour for some of the local chain stores in Erie. I looked into plowing for Home Depot, and they pay per hour. Its it common, and easy to keep track of, unless the customer is ghosted by the contractor.
    If you make your margins plowing per hour, then no harm no foul. What upsets alot of us who plow per push or per season, is the guy with a plow and truck that will charge 0.00 per hour, when we have a average return of 4-5x that rate. All that does is keep margins low, and the plowing industry as a whole mired in the mind set of the plow jokey trying to make beer money.
    I only hope that you will give SIMA another look. They are not a bad group to be associated with.
  16. DaveK

    DaveK Senior Member
    Messages: 420

    "1. Per hour/per truck Inexperienced service providers most often use this type of pricing......."

    Yes plowking, it does say most often, but it simply implies that Inexperienced service providers don't always price that way. Not that experienced professionals may sometimes price that way.

    So, if John Allin were the only one to submit an hourly priced bid, you would be skeptical that he was inexperienced? It just shows that pricing methods are not always determined by the contractor, sometimes they are set by the client, such as Home Depot, regardless of the experience or professionalism of the contractor.

    While I don't currently use hourly pricing (other than getting paid an hourly rate on some sub work) I strongly agree with RCIPlow that SIMA's choice of words in that instance should be changed.

    There are other ways to determine if a contractor is inexperienced without relying on his method of pricing. This is free enterprise and methods of pricing should in no way be connected with the experience of the contractor!

    Perhaps it could say that "if a contractor ONLY offers hourly pricing, it MAY indicate that he is new to the business. Although in some instances, even the most experienced may use hourly pricing."
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2001
  17. RCIPlow

    RCIPlow Member
    Messages: 86

    Plowking, 1st of all, In my area where snow is a sideline if you will. We do not see the winters you see up north. Per push is good on driveways I find, as far as per season forget about it, as far as I am concerned.
    It is funny how some of the posters on here frown upon per hour but I think a lot of you are paying subs per hour and recieving per hour pay from some of your clients. I guess we are all entitled to our oppinions. My problem with SIMA's statment is that when they say"Most Often" they are projecting an image, right or wrong, they do project it. If my client were to ask me for a per push or per season on the church, I would have to say no. How could I charge for a push, or take away from aloted season's push when I just go out at 6:00am to check sidewalks for school or morning mass. That would be more of a disservice then just charging them for 2 hours. SIMA might be good for some of you, and that is fine,I hope you benefit from it. But I have a hard time with any group that would make a statement such as that, if they indeed did make it. That is like telling a homeowner"Most often builders who buy at H--e Dep-- are doing so because of the cheap prices" Yeah that might be true for some, but not all contractors shop there because of price"Hey, it might be the only joint within 50 miles. So in my oppinion when a organization make a statement such as Sima they are projecting an image, right or wrong. And by the way, I wonder how SIMA feels about how some of the people who post on here treat each other, as proud SIMA members?
    Tim McGonigal
    Atco, NJ

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    Obviously, the payment method is not the real issue. The issue is simply that most often the contractors here that are lowballing the rest of us are the ones who bid hourly. While I would gladly work for anyone who wanted to pay me hourly the rates I need to make it, $125-$150 per hour, then sure I will bill hourly. They wont pay that hourly though, because they dont see the hidden costs and overhead associated with a legit snow business.

    Too often, while all the rest of us are consistently falling in that range on our bids, along comes a guy who bids across the board at $45 per hour. And as was the point with SIMA's statement, most of the time you will find them inexperienced operaters. This is simply what I have found to be true here, and I cant speak for any other part of the country.

    Anyone who has truly researched SIMA and not been impressed, I personally wonder about.

    I have plowed 44 inches of snow this week, and dont really have any time on my hands, but still took the time to answer this because of SIMA, and how I feel about the people it represents.
  19. DaveK

    DaveK Senior Member
    Messages: 420

    Tom, while I respect your opinion, I can also see the other side of the coin.

    By pricing per push or per season, in an amount that will earn $125 to $150 per hour, we are all simply attempting to pull the wool over the clients eyes. They ARE paying us $125 to $150 per hour, they just don't realize it. So where does this educating of the consumer come in. At some point, they will educate themselves and learn the truth. Or maybe they do realize it, and it makes no difference to them. When a client pays $30 per push for their driveway, and it only takes 10 minutes or less to do, it wouldn't take a brain surgen to figure out the hourly price.

    Inexperience has nothing to do with pricing. If John Allin were to were to change all his pricing to $200 per hour tomorrow, I doubt that many clients would complain.

    On the other hand, per push or seasonal pricing gives the client a set dollar amount that they are happy with. And we all want to keep the client happy, even if it does involve pulling a little wool over their eyes.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2001

    PINEISLAND1 PlowSite.com Veteran
    Messages: 664

    I have no problems with types of pricing, as long as the rates are standard for the area. My point is only that the hourly pushers here do not get the standards that the rest are. I agree that it comes down to educating the customer, and being willing to stand up for what you are worth and walk away from the ones that are sub-standard.

    The shock value of telling my customers my rates in hourly terms would probably hurt my business, even if they really probably do realize it when they take the time to break it down.

    No reason for me to willingly go hourly anyway, since seasonal and per push are so common here in the snow belt.

    By the way Dave- are you getting much of this snow by you this week?