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Raised parking lots........

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by forestfireguy, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. forestfireguy

    forestfireguy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,276


    My situation. We have been asked by a large clearing house of snow removal to provide a price for a seasonal contract on a site where there is a raised parking area. This area is surrounded by a 4 ft high wall. This site is approximately 7 acres total and 5 of it is the raised parking. I am trying to figure the best way to deal with it before giving them my final number, all I have come up with so far is using a telehandler to scoop the snow and dump it off the raised area into a drainage "pond" after hitting the ground any sizeable accumulation could be pushed off by a tracked skidsteer so as not to "roll back into the covered portion of the parking area, I have not yet gotten a firm answer on weight limitations of this raised area, initially they said nothing bigger than a 550 could be used, them they said a telehandler or skidsteer will be OK, I guess with snow load there are considerations of adding heavy equipment to the structure........Any ideas?????? Trucking the snow off site seems ridiculously expensive and they say we can't bring a tandem on the raised area to load anyway, would a skidsteer mounted blower be a better choice, just have the trucks push to the end and the skidsteer throw it off???? Seems this would eliminate the need for a telehandler, but I was thinking when not scooping and dumping the handler could take a pusher?????? I also know we could put a box on the sjidsteer but not as big a one as a telehandler will accept. I have thought of letting this one go , but on the other hand if I figure out a good way to handle it there is nothing any more complicated about this that any other site.......right????? I also realize the clearing house is smart to look for a seasonal number at a fixed price and not a per push or per hour deal.........SOme ideas my final numbers are due end of the week.......Thanks guys
    Part of my skepticism on this one is due to the issue at the middletown NY mall last season where between snow load and the equipment they had a partial collapse, as I hear it thankfully no one was hurt but the liability must be enormous.........
  2. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    One issue to clear up before figuring any numbers is the disposition of the snow. If that "pond" you mention is not on the original property OR it drains into a stream or body of water, you are not likely to be able to use it as a snow dump. It sounds like they want the snow removed from the property, so it will be necessary to truck it to a disposal site. If it's like I visualize, you'll need to push all the snow to one area by the gate (using pusher(s)), then a front end loader to load onto a dump and carry off.
  3. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Remember to get specs on the parking area.

    Assistant News Editor

    Part of the upper deck of a parking area collapsed at the Poughkeepsie Galleria at 11 a.m. on Thursday, Feb. 15, burying several cars under snow and debris. The southeast section of the mall, ranging from Target to JCPenney, was subsequently shut down to allow rescue teams to survey the wreckage. Despite the potentially devastating nature of the collapse, no injuries were sustained and only a few cars were damaged.

    “We’re just hoping there isn’t [anyone trapped under the debris]…no one's come forward yet,” New Hamburg Fire Department spokesman Jeff Renihan told the Poughkeepsie Journal on Friday. Since then, no one has been reported injured or missing.
    Poughkeepsie Police Department Captain Thomas Mauro said that surveillance tape of the area three hours prior to incident had been viewed and that there did not appear to be anyone in the vicinity at the time of the incident.

    The collapse left in its wake a gaping hold, 50 feet by 100 feet, with a mound of snow at its center. Approximately 60 cars were parked on each deck at the time, but none of the cars on top were affected.

    Some mall shoppers were stranded at the mall for hours as rescue teams determined whether the area was safe and waited on a latecoming crane that was supposed to help clear the damage.

    Poughkeepsie Galleria General Manager Joseph Castaldo told the Poughkeepsie Journal that there had never been problems with the structure of the parking area before. When asked about the cost of rebuilding, he replied, “we’re not interested in that,” insisting that safety issues were more important.

    Apart from that statement and the official press release by the Galleria’s parent company, Pyramid Management Group, mall officials have refused comment. According to the release, “At this time, we are working closely with local, county, and state agency representatives in determining the cause of this collapse. As always, public safety is our top priority.”

    Nonetheless, the mall officials’ statement was confirmed by Poughkeepsie Town Supervisor Patricia Myers, who said that they had gone “above and beyond” in cooperating with the town administration.

    Officials determined that the cause of the collapse was the weight of a large mound of snow, which had been piled in one corner by work crews from Bridge View Excavation after last Wednesday’s snowstorm. The steel and concrete parking area was built in 1987 and, though it may have since given way to architectural deterioration, was originally designed to hold 50 pounds per square foot. According to Town Building Inspector Tim Sickles, approximately 300 pounds of snow per square foot was weighing down the structure on Thursday.

    On Friday, Feb. 16, town officials blamed Bridge View Excavation for the collapse. “It doesn't seem like the brightest idea,” said Myers, of piling the snow. “This could have been a total catastrophe.”

    According to The Times Herald-Record, Bridge View Excavation’s legal representative Steve Melley responded by pointing out that the garage had been neglected for years. “This is ridiculous. The storm wasn't even that big. The snow was removed in the same, approved way it has been for 15 years.” Melley also noted that the mall had hired a structural engineer in 2005 when concrete flaking was noticed in the garage

    parking gararge.jpg
  4. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,194

    There is a similar lot in our area and they used a 95hp farm tractor with a 16' Daniel's blade and a pto driven snow blower. They pushed to the edge and then blew it over the side. Seemed to work pretty good.
  5. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,993

    Maybe a snow dragon ( melter) just turn it in to water and send it down the storm drain.
  6. QuadPlower

    QuadPlower PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,056

    Dang, as I was reading your post I was thinking of all of these ideas and as I kept going on everybody mentioned them.

    What I can ad it this. I don't think there is a problem putting the snow into the pond (as long as its on their property) unless maybe you salted it. And it could fill up with 5 acres of snow going into it.

    How high is the building? Dumping or blowing snow off of a roof too high could get dangerous. If it was between dumping and blowing, I would use a blower. Weight of vehicle, time, and being able to move it farther away from the building are some reasons.

    I think probably the best option is the Snow Dragon. I have not used one, I have not seen one work. I don't know the cost to buy/rent and then opperate either. That was a lot of help. I have read everything on their web page. My concern with using it on a roof is if the water freezes going down the drain pipe to the bottom. Another benifit would be that you could get a lot more water in pond than snow. You could also move it to another spot on the roof and use another drain.

    Have the equipment push to two or three areas, then use the snow dragon and a skid to remove the piles. That could be done during the day with one guy.

    Or is stock piling the snow going to cause structural problems? Does the snow have to be taken off right away? Does a pile of snow weigh more than cars parked in the same area?

    Good Luck
  7. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    Like Mick mentioned the pond may be a problem to dump in.
    If a blower is used is there another side to blow the snow off of that does not have major landscaping ? Landscape can be a problem as well.
    What about a dump site on the property ? You would not need much room to stack on.

    As far as clearing be carefull with the pusher boxes up on the deck on a skid. You may need just a blade for the skid with a U edge or rubber edge. One truck and a skid could pound that out in no time.

    I dont think the Snow Dragon would be profitable for such a small site, there Fuel pigs and only five acres would take a long long time to recover the upfront costs.
    Plus what about run off from the dragon ? Its no different then dumping Salt laden snow in the pond. It May be a problem dumping in storm sewers with the city.

    I dont think melting is the answer. I would look at other alternatives.
  8. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,256

    If you go the Snow Dragon route, make sure you ask if you can only pay 75% spread over 2-3 years.