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Questions regarding 810 PP

Discussion in 'Blizzard Plows Discussion' started by Midnight Son, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. Midnight Son

    Midnight Son Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    In November I purchased a used F-350 with an 810 PP on it. Since I purchased it I have had a number of issues which I am having a hard time getting worked out by our local (and only) Blizzard dealer. The plow was working fine and then it quit. I removed the cover and found that I had slush in the reservoir. I had to have the truck towed to the dealer as I couldnt raise the plow. I have been told that I could relieve hydraulic pressure and use a ratchet strap or comealong to secure the plow in the up position but I was not in the mood. Dealer goes through it and says it has a cracked breather so they replaced it and flushed and filled the system. WHile it was at the shop I asked the mechanic and the service manager to give it a thorough inspection and also to see if it was possible to get the plow to go up any higher as it sits at full height approximately 5.5" above the ground and there are certain roads I have to avoid because of the low clearance. They said that was the maximum height and that everything was ready to go. A few days later, I was out plowing for about twenty minutes into a storm and the plow quit, again in the down position, but this time no visible slush in the resevoir. Motor spins but it sounds as if there is no fluid in the pump. Dealer goes through it again and does the flush and fill routine. Three days ago in the middle of a storm cycle, I had landed a subcontracting gig and made it through about four hours before it froze up. Motor spins, electrical connections appear ok, power hitch toggle spins the motor but plow doesnt move. I will leave out the details of my dissatisfaction with the dealer for this post,, and will simply ask a few questions abour these problems. How high up should the pushbar be mounted on the truck (97 F-350)? One mechanic said mine was too low and the guy that worked on mine cant even tell what year mine is so I am suspicious as to his level of expertise on this model. Also, the mechanic today increased my pump pressure to almost the maximum amount to increase the speed of the plow (a problem I have never noticed nor complained about). Will this affect pump life and plow reliability? How much fluid does the plow hold in total? If they are not flushing it properly or fully, then they wouldnt have to put in the full amount and I just want to make sure they are getting it right this time as we are on the verge of another storm and I was told it was fixed this afternoon and when I got there it was not working properly. Lastly, if anyone has any suggestions on fixes or maintenance items that I can do to remedy these problems they would be most appreciated. When time allows I plan to go through the unit from top to bottom and get it tuned up but I am without a place to work on it currently and it is too cold out to spend much time on it. I do clean and grease it regularly, and it does spend a fair amount of time stored indoors (at the dealership getting flushed and refilled) so I hope to get this thing running reliably and then maintain it.

    Thank you for your time and expertise.
  2. frdtrckmnrich

    frdtrckmnrich Junior Member
    Messages: 17

    Your pins, the ones that secure it to the truck. They should be around 12-13" from the ground. As for your other problems i have nothing. But please keep us informed of what you find out.
  3. fastjohnny

    fastjohnny Senior Member
    Messages: 654

    Some pics of your motor/pump would help us give more info.

    You could go a bit higher on mounting bracket, though book is as noted above. Your plow may have wear in the draw latch, pins and center bolt causing it to not raise as high as when new.

    As to your pump/motor issues, possible incomplete flushing technique, you might run a wee bit of isopropyl alcohol in your reservoir. Also you may have your filters on your pump plugged and/or falling off in the reservoir, which could mean your pump is sucking air.
  4. Midnight Son

    Midnight Son Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    Thank you for the response. The mechanic told me that the problem with my plow is the breather cap on the reservoir is allowing snow to get into it and that is where the water is entering the system. I have paid quite a bit to have this repaired and they have put on three new breather caps. They decided yesterday to put on a new reservoir with an updated style of breather cap but could not get it to fit the pump so they put the original one on. I hope that they would inspect the filters and pick up tubes to ensure that they are in proper working order. They moved the push bar up and when I went to pick up the plow it was raising up to where it was visible above the hood of the truck. I ran it through the controls a few times prior to leaving and after three cycles of raising and lowering it would only lift to about 5 inches above the ground.I complained about the problem prior to leaving and they couldnt find anything that would cause this problem. It will be spending today at their shop as well (day five in there on this occurrence). I believe that there is some slop in the holes on the mount and I am prepared to repair those this spring if I can get through the season, but I have seen the plow raise up to a proper height so I dont believe these to be the sole culprit of the problem. I love the plow when it works but it is so unreliable that I am losing business and am somewhat apprehensive about taking on any new clients due to its unreliability. I appreciate all of your input and look forward to getting it up and running properly and will keep you guys updated. Any other suggestions would be welcome.

    thank you for your time and your input.
  5. lilweeds

    lilweeds PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,178

    As Jon mentioned all of those things should be checked. There are also issue with the pickup tube falling off which would also give you the same problem. Other issues could be a sticking valve as well. If you're mechanically inclined I would do it myself, if you don't mind posting an email I can send you a link with proper flushing instructions, can't post it here though.
  6. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,391

    can i ask if this is a pre dd plow??
  7. beam

    beam Senior Member
    from pa
    Messages: 314

    sound like you have issues with it not raising up all the way does it do it only once in a while or after repeated times???? could be a bad electric motor as it is heating up if it is cold when it goes to the top of the hood and after numerous times going up and down it gets weaker check the motor the find out pump pressure the pins always have the same result cold or hot could be the wire connections less power check out and let us know
  8. EliteSnow&Ice

    EliteSnow&Ice Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    I had a problem with the pin that connects the lift cylinder to the plow frame. It had broken and some times when you lifted the plow it would only go up 6". Some times that broken pin would catch just right and lift all the way up. I went a full season with out a breather cap, just a plastic bag zipped stripped over the hole and never had problems with it freezing up.
  9. bliz&hinikerDLR

    bliz&hinikerDLR Senior Member
    Messages: 553

    Ok, the fact that you got a new reservoir and it would not fit leads me to believe this is a pre-DD plow running an Fenner power unit. To identify the power unit look at the motor, it should be a gold metallic color ... not black. The reservoir would be very square with a breather cap that is sort of triangular. Any 810 with a Fenner power unit should be at 2004 or prior build date unless it has been modified. It would not be uncommon to not be able to find a serial number on a plow of that age.
    The hydraulic fluid capacity of an 810 is approximately 4 quarts (1 gal) ... typical flush uses 3 to 4 quarts.
    Adjusting the main relief pressure is a common practice for me in tuning a new plow but not one that has been in service a while. Proper system pressure is 2000 - 2400 psi (manual says 2400). Typically a drop in system pressure is due to a worn pump, not relief valve setting. IMO pump life should not be affected unless adjusted far above this number because the pump is rated for 3000psi.
    If the plow is sucking air, the first thing i would check on this particular plow would be the intake tube in the reservoir. The fluid pickup and filter in these power units had a habit of twisting upward during use. Proper position is down at the bottom of the tank. This would also explain a shortened lift height as the plow would suck air very quickly when raised. This is only a theory as I am not there an do not have enough information.
    If your dealer is correct and you are continuing to get water in your system, I would not suspect the breather to be the issue. Typically water enters though a damaged cylinder. Look for pitting or scratching on the cylinder rods.
    As for your dealer situation. I don't know how long they have been a Blizzard dealer. The plows have changed a lot since 1999. So much so that pre 2005 plows pretty much require a serial number to know exactly what you are looking at and get the right parts. There are lots of little strange things to look for in the early plows. We know them because we sold Blizzard since day one. A dealer who began selling after 2005 has only seen limited changes in new product and may not have the experience to immediately recognize these unique problems of older units.
    These types of problems are why I do not recommend a commercial snow removal company with only one rig start with a used plow. If a dealer sells you a used plow and can take care of it, that is fine ... but if you buy a plow from Joe on the street, you never know what you are getting.
  10. Midnight Son

    Midnight Son Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    I agree on the used plow problems but luckily I have not gotten myself into a situation where I have left anyone underserved. I am committed to working out the bugs on this plow and making it a reliable unit. I like the Plow and I like plowing. The motor is black and I will post pictures when I get to my computer. Thank you all for your help.
  11. fastjohnny

    fastjohnny Senior Member
    Messages: 654

    How's your truck's batt's and charging system? Low voltage and amp draw from motor/pump greater than truck's ability to supply can quickly cause problems.
    You really need to get a number on what the pump is putting out as far as psi as well. But because it did work once, I tend to think it's not that, although the filter/pickup location needs to be confirmed.

    I'm really thinking you need a motor, based on my experience. I've had one a while back that ran great when cold, and for a few hours, then would completely conk out. After it cooled off, it'd work again. You might pull the bolts on the back cover of the motor and take a look. If it's black inside and stinks bad, you need a motor. Be careful when you do this so you don't pull the case away from the armature and lose the brushes. Also, understandable if you need a motor right away, you may be forced to purchase from your dealer, but there are plenty of resources beyond OEM for motors.

    While you're at this plow repair stuff, you should consider a few other upgrades for longevity and performance, including positive angle stops AKA Jerre's nuts, 1-0 redundant power and ground supply via anderson connector.
  12. Midnight Son

    Midnight Son Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    Truck electrical seems to be solid. I will be inspecting the pickup tube and the pin on the lift cylinder tomorrow. The modifications for performance and longevity I will work on once I get this current issue worked out. I will inspect the motor as well. If I find a problem with the motor I will probably just get it from the dealer if they have one in stock. I will keep you all posted on my findings and I definitely appreciate all of the help. Links to aftermarket parts would be appreciated as I think I would like to stock some spares as I have only the one plow rig.
  13. JohnnyU

    JohnnyU 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,040

    I can't vouch for the quality of the partrs compared to OEM, but these guys are starting to sell more and more parts for Blizzard plows.


    I second John's comments about the motor issues, it really does sound like it's onit's way out.
  14. Midnight Son

    Midnight Son Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    Update- today I decided to look into my plow problems myself. I took the plow off of the truck and stood it up on the blade to inspect all of the undercarriage. I found that the driver side pin bushing was missing and that the passenger side one was well worn. I plugged in the harness and ran the lift cylinder via the power hitch switch and measured the full stroke of the cylinder. I measured 4-5/8". If anyone knows the specs on that and could post them it would be greatly appreciated. I lubricated and inspected everything and reinstalled the plow. the plow went up and down very smoothly and went up to a very good height off the ground for two or three times and then was back to only lifting off the ground approximately 5.5" at the bottom of the blade. My current hunch is that there is a problem with debris or broken parts in the lift cylinder that causes it to bind up at a certain height. Not sure on that just a hunch. I then ran into a neighbor that has a large plowing company and has eight or nine blizzards. He said mine is an 8611 lo pro. He also said that I need to inspect for any cracked welds on the undercarriage as he has had problems with them binding up also. I will get on that tomorrow if we dont get the 8-16" storm tonight that is forecast.Also, does anyone have a rough cost on a new lift cylinder? All input is greatly appreciated.

    thank you
  15. Midnight Son

    Midnight Son Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    Well, I followed the link to Angelo's supplies provided above (thank you to the person who provided it) and it appears that the cylinder stroke of 4-5/8" is correct so I will now inspect for cracks and also see if there is a problem with the pin that holds the lift cylinder. thank you for all your help and I will keep you posted.
  16. fastjohnny

    fastjohnny Senior Member
    Messages: 654

    Stroke is correct.

    If the pin bushing is gone, are you lifting and/or plowing on the pin only? The pins really shouldn't take any force, there meant to hold the plow on, really only necessary for back drag in float. I'd get those fixed quick. If your blizzard dealer doesn't have them, I'd buy some structural tubing and make bushings. You'll cause a lot of wear and trouble if you keep running it without getting it fixed.

    As to your lift height, how's the condition of the cylinder? Is the chrome on the ram good, or rusty/pitted? Also a possiblity is an internally degrading hose. Seen that happen too, much like a brake hose on a vehicle can cause brakes to drag.
  17. Midnight Son

    Midnight Son Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    I replaced both pin bushings as soon as I discovered the problem. I also took the time to anti-seize and fluid film everything while I was at it. The cylinders are all in fair shape showing some initial pitting at the ends but no leaky cylinder seals as of yet.
  18. JohnnyU

    JohnnyU 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,040

  19. Midnight Son

    Midnight Son Junior Member
    Messages: 14

    I have downloaded the manuals. I plowed for about 8 hours yesterday and about ten today. I went through about a quart of hydraulic fluid with no visible leaks and watching other plows around here, mine is painfully slow. We are not supposed to have snow for a few days so i will be tearing into the plow this weekend. Any thoughts or input is greatly appreciated.

    thank you
  20. maelawncare

    maelawncare Senior Member
    Messages: 871

    Check everything when you take it apart.

    The fluid is going somewhere. It is just probably only leaking when you use it in certain conditions. You are using blue plow fluid right?