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question about salt blacktop/ concrete damage?

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by cornbinder, Oct 27, 2007.

  1. cornbinder

    cornbinder Senior Member
    Messages: 348

    i've got a question about salt and the effects it will have on concrete vs. blacktop. the one apartment complex i plow/salt is building 60 more units. currently the main roads and entrances are blacktop, the driveways are concrete naturaully. now they are in the process of building 60 more units and the main roads and all drives/entrances will be concrete. the apt. manager is crying the blues to me and says i better get a different kind of salt for the "new concrete roads" because he said the salt will tear up the concrete?? is this a bunch of B.S.?? i've never heard of that before, so i'd figure i'd ask. i'll have to probably have to prove it to him also as he is a "know it all" and gets all pissed off when he is proven wrong. thanks, pete
  2. mojob

    mojob Member
    Messages: 83

    I'd be careful of new concrete. Even bags of ice melt have warnings that new concrete can be damaged by their product.
  3. Jay brown

    Jay brown PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,783

    the concrete needs to cure for 1 to 2 years before you use salt. better just use sand or nothing at all untill then.
  4. JT Contracting

    JT Contracting Junior Member
    Messages: 26

    Jay is right, it needs to cure at least 1 year, depending on how good it was laid down and finished. A good concrete job can take salt within a year and a bad job will flake off after three or more years. Also if it has been sealed with a cure and seal product it will stand up longer. just my 2 cents
  5. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    You also need to find out what your town put down on the roads .A lot of the new stuff they use with eat the concrete from all the cars coming and going. When the car parks in the same spot and starts to drip it will pit the concrete .So you should take picture of the place and some up close ones of the parking spaces .Maybe put this in writing that this could happen.
  6. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt Senior Member
    from IA.
    Messages: 745

    I am one of the only people in my area that provides different types of melting products depending on surfaces.

    1. I don't use any sand. If a client wants it I talk them out of it because it doesn't provide any melting unless mixed with salt or chloride. Plus its super messy.

    2. Staight salt. I use it on 80% of my accounts. It melts everything with in 24 hours. Customers want to see results.

    3. I use a potassium/magnesium Chloride bag mix on ALL new concrete and Brick. If used correctly it wont harm new surfaces, and its a fertilizer based so theoreticaly it won't harm plantings and grass.

    I get most of my plowing contracts due to my Ice control application. But just remember every product has its pros and cons.

    DAFFMOBILEWASH PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,602

    Nitrogen: Have herd peple using it in concrete parking structures. From what i gather it prevents the poping of newer concrete, while still melting snow.
  8. Bossman 92

    Bossman 92 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,771

    Just get out and PEE on the ground. LMAO Should work OK. And that won't hurt anything.

  9. cornbinder

    cornbinder Senior Member
    Messages: 348

    before i pee all over the place, should i put some extra salt on my fries, maybe that'll help. ha-ha later, pete
  10. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    how about useing calcium chloride, it's an ingrediant in concret to make it cure in cold weather, i buy it from the concrete plant for $1 per gal but i havent found a good way to aplie it yet?
  11. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    where having a big fight over that in maine. everyones saying it eats whatever it comes into contact with. mostly cars..... whether or not that should be used on concrete i dunno. i know its in some of it but im not into molecules or bonding/liquifying agents so i would be sure the correct amount is being used and its being applied while in the correct form or state. like i said. dunno. we are having fights over here about it though.

    Can Road Chemicals Hurt Your Car?
    Web Editor: Rhonda Erskine, Online Content Producer
    Last Updated: 3/2/2007 2:32:09 PM

    Road crews will be out in force salting and putting chemicals on Maine roads during the storm. But is their treatment damaging your car? A number of mechanics apparently think so.
    Some mechanics say they're seeing a dramatic increase in corroded brake and fuel lines, as well as other kinds of damage to cars and trucks. They say it's been happening over the last two to three years, and think new ice-fighting chemicals are to blame.

    "I think it's the material they're putting down on the road, the calcium chloride, and those exposed lines are just getting beat on all the time, and that salt sits on there over a couple years," said Tom Gildersleeve from Newcastle Chrysler.

    The Maine DOT says it uses rock salt as well as liquid calcium chloride and magnesium chloride to melt the ice. But officials say they've been using the same mix for ten years. They do not believe that's the reason for the recent rise in auto repairs.

    "in the '80's of course there was a lot of corrosion around. The 90's were good, and all of a sudden we're just hearing this cropping up and I know we haven't changed anything dramatically in the last couple of years," said Brian Burne, a DOT Maintenance Engineer.

    Burne thinks manufacturers have changed something that's making the parts more vulnerable to corrosion. Until that gets figured out, the mechanics say their best advice for drivers is to wash the underside of your car after every storm.
    ©2007 WCSH6.com/Gannett Co., Inc. All Rights Reserved.
  12. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    good post bri you done some research
  13. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    no. this is good research. hope it helps him. (thanks for the pat on the back though pj)

    Sodium chloride isn't the only salt used for de-icing, nor is it necessarily the best choice. Sodium chloride dissolves into two types of particles: one sodium ion and one chloride ion per sodium chloride 'molecule'. A compound that yields more ions into a water solution would lower the freezing point of water more than salt. For example, calcium chloride (CaCl2) dissolves into three ions (one of calcium and two of chloride) and lowers the freezing point of water more than sodium chloride. Here are some other de-icing compounds:

    Chemicals Used to Melt Ice

    Name Formula Lowest Practical Temp Pros Cons

    Ammonium sulfate (NH4)2SO4 -7°C
    (20°F) Fertilizer Damages concrete

    Calcium chloride CaCl2 -29°C
    (-20°F) Melts ice faster than sodium chloride Attracts moisture, surfaces slippery below -18°C (0°F)

    Calcium magnesium acetate (CMA) Calcium carbonate CaCO3, magnesium carbonate MgCO3, and acetic acid CH3COOH -9°C
    (15°F) Safest for concrete & vegetation Works better to prevent re-icing than as ice remover

    Magnesium chloride MgCl2 -15°C
    (5°F) Melts ice faster than sodium chloride Attracts moisture

    Potassium acetate CH3COOK -9°C
    (15°F) Biodegradable Corrosive

    Potassium chloride KCl -7°C
    (20°F) Fertilizer Damages concrete

    Sodium chloride (rock salt, halite) NaCl -9°C
    (15°F) Keeps sidewalks dry Corrosive, damages concrete & vegetation
    Urea NH2CONH2 -7°C
    (20°F) Fertilizer Agricultural grade is corrosive
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2007