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Question about being a sub.

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself to the Community' started by kimber750, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    I have been plowing my rental accounts for over five years. I also fill in for plow company's when they get behind or have equipment go down. But this year on of the company's have asked if I would plow an account for them for the season. When I help these guys out I charge by the hour, but for the season they want to pay me one set amount. Now this could be good or bad since our snowfall here varies so much. They have offered 4 grand for the season, this seems awfully low to me.

    The account is a medium shopping center. Best guess is around 4-5 hours with one truck (me) and a backhoe (another sub). My truck, my fuel, my maintenance.

    So my question to all you pro's out there are,

    1 Is this normal way to pay?
    2 Is this a low ball offer?
    3 What is the min I should ask for to take on this account?

    Normally charge a min of $55 an hour. Most the time I get more, just depends on what and where. I just don't have enough knowledge in this aspect of snow removal.
  2. erkoehler

    erkoehler PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,279

    Pricing is going to vary depending on the market that you are in.

    How many events or pushes do you see per season?
  3. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    2010 over 15, but on average 3-5" per storm.

    2009 6-7 with several over 2 feet per storm.

    Really hard to judge our snow fall
  4. erkoehler

    erkoehler PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,279

    So what's the trigger?

    Take your trigger depth, divide it by the average snow fall from last few years. That will be your baseline for number of pushes.

    Multiply tha by 5 hours per push. This is your estimated hours per year.

    Multiply your yours per year by your hourly rate.

    Make sense?
  5. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    Makes perfect sense, thank you very much. :salute:
  6. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    What's the pay schedule? First of the month, 4 payments or???

    Are you supposed to manage (ie just show up) or do you wait for the call to come in?

    What if the other sub with the hoe does not show up?

    What happens if you or the other sub has a breakdown?

    The multi sub situation would make me leary.
  7. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    All very good questions that I didn't think of to ask. Really not used to working for others like this. I can say this, there is no way I am gonna plow the shopping center by myself. Me having a breakdown, I got two plow trucks. 02 f350 and 94 f150. Payment is 1st of the month for 4 months.

    Really glad I signed up here and hopefully I will be able to help some others also.
  8. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,707

    How can they offer you a seasonal price when you are clearly not able to service this lot in it's entirety?

    Not that coming to a seasonal price isn't fine.
  9. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    The guy that is trying to hirer me has the account, he is wants me and another guy to do the plowing. I agree, I am in no way equipped to handle the account by myself. I believe is gotten more accounts than he can keep up with and is looking to hirer subs instead of buying more equipment and hiring more employees.

    The plan as I have been told so far is

    Me in my plow
    guy with a backhoe
    two man crew for sidewalks
    account holder has his own salt rigs.

    This is why I signed up and asked about this. I just don't know all the in and outs of this. Plowing my own properties is not anywhere near this complicated. And helping the plow guys on occasion is easy. They call me, offer a certain amount an hour and tell me where. I offered to do just on an hour basis but he does all his accounts on a seasonal price, so he wants to pay me that way.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
  10. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Works out to 73 hours of plowing for 4,000.00
  11. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    73 hours just doesn't seem like enough time. But if it doesn't snow payup
  12. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    4k is just your pay ,not the other sub splits with you?Works out to about 15 plows for the season.
  13. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    Yes, thats just my pay. My concern is the larger storms we get sometimes. Can remember back when I was plowing for Liberty Excavators, I was at a pretty large shopping center. One storm I was there for over 48 hours.

    The guy that is hiring me is a friend, I went to school with him. Just trying to make sure we stay friends.
  14. goel

    goel PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,079

    So many uncontrolled variables.

    Do the 3 groups work as a team or independant area's?

    I would hate to plow by the sidewalks, then have the shovellers come along and push/blow the snow where it was already plowed.

    If the other guys are late, do you snitch on them?

    What if are supposed to work together - you show up on time but have to wait for the hoe guy who is late - so you sit with your thumb up your bum for an hour?

    You said its a mall, so whats the plan for daytime snow storms - clean up will be after hours but is everyone called in during the day or what?

    Like I said, very leary of the situation. So many things to work out in a situation like this. Everyone loves money in the bank, but whats the cost you are willing to pay?
  15. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    More great advice. I have nothing set in stone. I am taking notes and these will all be subjects that will be discussed before any decision is made.
  16. cet

    cet PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,257

    You said in 2009 you had many storms over 2'. I'm betting your truck will be pretty much useless in those storms. We had a 19" storm a couple of years ago and it took us over twice as long and our pushes wouldn't have been any where near the length of a mall.

    Seasonal pricing works best when you know your yearly averages and you get a multi year deal. You will be ahead some years and behind others. He can make up for the bad years with the salting.
  17. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,681

    In 09 I still only had my little F150. And yes I did struggle, and I wasn't plowing anything the size of a shopping center. I was hired to plow all the local Wendy's for a guy that had one of his rigs go down. Think I did pretty well at keeping up with it, never had to plow more than 6 inches at a time. It was the following spring I put a plow on my F350. I still prefer to plow with the 150 just cause it so much smaller. It is a 94 F150, ext cab, short box, 5.8 with some mild mods, auto with kevlar packs and better converter, large tranny cooler, and extra deep tranny pan, posi front and rear with 3.73. Plow is an older Meyer EZ classic St7.5, E47, with PRO wings. Has Air bags up front. All around a great little truck that I may have about $4000 invested in.