Pre wetting

[GeoffD]

Can you pre-wet with magic or m50. I have been doing some research on other deicers that can be used in pre-wet systems. I have read about a product called M-50/MAGic, is this the same magic that you guys are useing?

I thought magic had to be applied 2-3 days before use on a stock pile. I also thought you could only use magic on salt.

Here is the link where i found magic being used in a pre-wet system.

http://www.mtnproducts.com/treating.asp


Geoff

 

[plowking35]

In a word YES.
M-50 is the liquid product that we spray the salt with. It will work in a prewet system such as what you run Geoff.
WHy we spray salt in stoack pile form, is to save the customer the need to add the prewet system to their trucks.
The only thing that you may need is larger nozzels because the magic has some solids in it that may clog smaller ports.
Call John at NY Snow Pros, he will know what size to use.
Dino

 

[Alan]

Geoff, I'm sure John Parker will have better information, but from what I know it may be better to add Magic to the pile but it works as good as anything in a prewet system.

Treated in the pile gives you more uniform coating, whereas a prewet misses some of the dray material and drips pure Magic on some spots as well.

At some point I'm going to try injecting Magic into the load on the truck and let it get mixed in as the spreader augers deliver it to the spinner. That way I can get away from "losing" the Magic that misses the salt on the spinner. My eventual goal is to set up a delivery system that will meter a given amount of Magic per revolution. That should give a more uniform incorporation than anything other than treating the pile.

I'd like to try liquid app of straight Magic but I'm more than a little leery of some of the ways that can come back to bite you if it's not done under the right conditions.

 

[GeoffD]

Ok, thanks for the info, i got one more question. Magic it's self will melt snow and ice, correct? Thats is why you guys are thinking about a liquid app.

Now, if I pre-wet sand/salt with magic, the treated sand will help to melt the snow and ice. Just like when a pre-wet sand/salt with mag cloride, it melts the snow/ice faster because the sand treated in a way is also a deicer. Does all this sound correct to you guys?

So my question is, if i pre-wet the sand/salt with magic, i can get the improved performance of magic, and give the customers the sand they want. Correct?

From a melting standpoint, which has better properties, mag cloride or magic?

I just don't know as much about these products as some of you guys do. I am always looking at ways to improve service, however it's not possible for me to go to all salt, so i got to look at other ways. Also for me any change I make is very expensive, so i try to research as much as possible before making a change.

Geoff

 

[n y snow pros]

Geoff,yes M-50 is basically Magic under another name.Magic or m-50 can be sprayed on sand,sand/salt,and salt.Mountain products is off on the amounts a little bit though.For sand/salt you need a minimum of 10 gallons per ton and should spray the salt 1st and then mix with sand.The salt should be sprayed at a rate of 8 gallons per ton.Straight sand should be at 10 to 12 gallons per ton.You can run Magic or M-50 through your existing prewet system but you must remove any filters that may be on the system.Prewet systems are inefficient due to the fact that some liquid hits the material,some hits the road,and some is atomized into the air.This is why treating the stockpile is so much more effective than prewetting.These chemical manufacturers went after the calcium market in the municipalities by convincing them to use Magic in there prewet systems.It was a no brainer for the towns which were already set up to prewet and could just remove filters if they had any and then put Magic in there systems and it works great.The towns become lazy and are not real interested in stocpile treating and therefore it is a tougher sell since the Magic or M-50 works very well for them.Its just that if they stockpile treated they would see even greater results.

 

[Alan]

Geoff, if I was going to go with much salt/sand mix I think I would go with as little salt as possible to keep the pile from freezing and then either prewet at the spinner or add Magic to the load.

I see the application of sand OR salt as two distinctly different processes. If I want to deice, or anti-ice (which is my normal approach)I use straight salt, the sand adds nothing in this context. If I need to provide traction in extreme cold conditions I want sand with as little salt as possible as I want the sand to stay on the surface and not bore down and get lost in the ice layer.

However, if I'm doing my job right, there should not BE any pack to deal with. With proper anti-icing use of salt or a mix of salt and Magic I don't need to apply sand except on a very few gravel drives and in the case of the occasional and severe ice storm. Even during the storm in 98 I applied far less sand than salt. The salt bored through the ice and melted along the pavement. We were able to remove over an inch of ice with our plows, after the salt had loosened and perforated it down to the pavement.

 

[n y snow pros]

Alan once again you are on the money.All of what you say makes perfect sense and i agree with you completely.