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No room for more snow..

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by hedhunter9, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. hedhunter9

    hedhunter9 Senior Member
    Messages: 212

    This year, we have already gotten over 72 inchs of snow. Our normal average snow for for the whole season is 60 inchs.. We still have 2 months to go and next week we are supposed to get daily snows and a few large storms.
    We havnt had any warm ups or any time for snow to melt.

    The problem is.. The apartment complex I plow as a sub, has run out of room to put snow.. We have pushed piles up on every spot we put snow the last few years, but those were full the first week of Jan. We got creative and started putting piles on every little unblocked lawn area we could. Then we took some parking spots that were near ends and were open.

    Problem is. we have run out of areas to put any more.
    And the apt. complex managers do not want to bring in any equipment to move or stack higher. (they are super cheap) I am subbing for a friend. he has a seasonal contract with them and is losing his butt on this months pay. (about even for last month)
    I had told him to be careful about bidding a seasonal after we have had 3-4 years of light snows. cause he could get in trouble if we had a heavy winter.
    I saw one guy years ago go bankrupt after doing the same thing.
    I dont want to see my friend in trouble, and dont know what will happen if he doesnt plow them properly during the next weeks storms, but we just dont have anywhere to put more snow...!
    I know he is really upset with the apt higher ups.
    The local manager is also upset and knows that we are working our butts off trying to do the job but are hindered by the fact that the apt complex does not have proper places to put snow.
    If we cant plow because of no-where to put snow, whos fault ?
    My friend? the apt managers ? God ?
    any suggestions ?

  2. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    Have the tenats move out....

    Well your guy needs to bite the bullet and rent a skid. 200 isn't going to break the broke bank is it?
  3. OSCLandscaping

    OSCLandscaping Member
    Messages: 32

    All of those questions you asked should be clearly spelled out in the contract. If the answers are not clearly spelled out in the contract then the question is who wrote the contract that the parties signed. As li have stated in another thread, any gray areas in a contract almost always fall in favor of the party that did not write the contract.
  4. Herm Witte

    Herm Witte Senior Member
    Messages: 595

    Assuming relocating snow not included the lot gets smaller and smaller. Not your fault or problem. Once you start relocating the snow for free it will be expected in the future.
  5. Dogplow Dodge

    Dogplow Dodge PlowSite Veteran
    from NJ
    Messages: 3,699

    I don't see this as a big deal, as for a few hundred bucks and 10 gallons of diesel, your friend could rent a small loader and move the piles, or stack them higher. At least, if I was in that situation, I would do. Worst case scenario, you'd have to rent a truck to cart it away. No clause in the contract for "snow removal" from the property, I guess, huh ?

    Yeah, it's a couple hours of work, and a few hundred bucks lost, but Live and Learn....

    Besides, it's fun to move snow with a loader. If I lived there, and he paid for the rental, I'd get in the machine for free if I had the time. That's the fun part of the job, IMO.
  6. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Not your problem, keep filling in the spots that tents park in. Or just give them a flat rate for so many hours with a loader,this way they kind of have an idea on how much he would charge
  7. mkwl

    mkwl 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,362

    Well said- any snow contract should include provisions regarding snow relocation/removal, charges, minimum fees, etc., if it's not spelled out in the contract you're under obligation to rent a skid to move piles, but I'd see if you can do an addendum to the contract to cover yourself for the rest of the season- talk to the property owners…. and before next year- revise the contract!
  8. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    Its called doing the right thing!

    The deal was made, good or bad, a deal is a deal.

    Put ur shelf on the other side of the table. If there was no snow and the wallet was fat, would you return the cash?

    Rent a machine, do the right thing and learn a lesson!

    We know the answer is no on the refund
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  9. sk187

    sk187 Senior Member
    Messages: 338

    If stacking of snow is in his scope of the contract, hire a loader for a half day to stack it.

    If nothing is mentioned in the contract about stacking then you have to either make them pay or bite the bullet and get a loader on your dime for a few hours.

    Cant believe a apartment complex wouldn't pay ~$1000 for snow stacking but then again if its not in the contract its not technically their problem.
  10. vlc

    vlc Senior Member
    Messages: 636

    Commercial contracts include an hourly rate for snow relocation if needed plus dumping fees if removal is necessary. If residential driveways get out of hand, I'll swing by and stack the snow for free. Only a couple scoops with a skidsteer and the customers love it.
  11. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    Once again, doing the right thing here!
  12. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Not in this business so much, as stated before, you do it once for free you might as well count it as lost profit, and then they will dictate to you every time when they need more free service. And the next yr you'll be negotiating from the weak side because they know you'll do it free no matter what.
  13. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,395

    Has the contractor asked the apt manager if they would pay to have the snow moved? Might start there
  14. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    Once again, the other side of the table.

    If I hire a contractor and he failed, would I hire him back?

    Now would I resgin someone who provide the best service even on a bad deal knowing he's going out of pocket to service me?
  15. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    Sounds asked and answered
  16. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Still comes down to the contract. If your hired to push snow you push snow to the dictated spots, Now they are full you contract management and its in their ballpark to do something. What would happen if you were doing them a favor by moving snow and smash a car ,property damage or run someone over. You better believe their lawyers will be all over you because they didn't approve the work.

    Maybe you'll hire them back till someone else comes in with a lower price.
  17. Triton2286

    Triton2286 Senior Member
    Messages: 653

    What Grandview said. If they don't want it stacked or relocated then keep putting it in parking spots.
  18. potskie

    potskie Senior Member
    from Ontario
    Messages: 769

    I have seen and experienced both of these on a Large multi residential contract (110 separate properties). Ran out of space to plow to, boss thought we would be the nice guys and stack it up on a few of the really bad properties. Next thing you know we are buying the front clip for a protege and next storm a couple of the building supers complained because we didn't stack it again.

    Next year and from that point on we just filled tenants spaces until the property management company would bite the bullet on stacking or removal. Took their tenants receiving a few dozen parking tickets from over flow parking on the streets before the company paid up....
  19. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 12,174

    Don't get me wrong, I do agree.

    I'm just saying if that we my contact, my client, my problem I would do the right thing. If I had to take it on the chin because I failed to negotiate properly, then so be it.
  20. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    More then likely he signed their half ass contract. So he is doing what they wanted and they went cheap.Now, if you were doing the work and was using a skid and a pickup truck then ya, stack it up a little .but don't get carried away.