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Need Help with motor and fluid seal questions *sorry long*

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by OffRoadPlow, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    OK, so I have a few questions about the pics I am going to show of the (new to me) old 8' snoway I am going to be building for replacement.
    I have one of the whole motor, and two close ups of the parts that I need to ID what they are and what they do and what to run to them, as well as a few other questions.. Questions at the bottom...

    First pic:






    1. What is the wiring for 6 and 7 in the pics going to ( pic 2 and 3 are just close ups of the orig from a top ang.), what do they do, and how should they be wired?

    2. Number 8 is the seal that has separated a bit and is leaking fluid now, it seems to have a sealant on it, Is there normally a gasket there or will just replacing the RTV? that is there do the trick, was not happy as I was not told about this when I got it and with Low temp blue at $8 a qt dropping on to the garage floor I was not too happy

    3. I have to wire this custom, can't find a harness, and only have a control for the cab to run the left right up down controls (wires that run to 3, 4, and 5 on the pic) with a pos and neg for the control, so I have put a sol. in line for the motor, but with just the wires hooked up the plow raises and keeps trying to raise until I shut the motor off, the control for down locks in so I am just wondering if this is normal, or if it might be part of the whole down pressure part?

    Any help to any of these questions would be a huge favor and sorry for the length, just wanting to get this up and running by the weekend if possible, as a trip will prevent me from working on this next week.. Thanks....

    I will be happy to ans. any questions, and post more pics if needed, just thought I would try here as search efforts seem nil and the dealers around here want arm and leg to work or it.

  2. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    Looks like an old leo setup that i had.

    Basically the coils like the one in pic3 #7 divert the flow of fluid to the proper hose leading down to the ram.
    They all share a common ground (1 pin on each coil) #4,5,7 on your pics.
    you should have 3 of them down left and right. Run 1 common ground wire to each of them (when there are no coils powered by the switch and the motor is running the blade goes up).

    Then from the switch comes the positive signal to open the valve.
    and to run the pump. (1 for each coil down left right)

    The positive signal from the up left and right switch in the cab also goes to the main solenoid that runs the pump (it sends power to run the pump motor).

    The main power solenoid will have 2 big red positive wires on it and 1 or 2 small wires. It works like a light switch (when you send power down the small wires it makes the big wires connect inside to send power along to run the pump) so you need positive signal from the switch and possibly a ground to operate it on the small terminals(depending on whether it has 2 small terminals or just 1).

    So next you need to identify the coils 1 at a time by giving them 12 volts when the blade drops you found the down coil. After that one is identified get the motor is spinning to find the left and the right one (it might be easier to just follow the hoses on this one). when you give them power and the motor is spinning the plow will move in the appropriate direction.

    #1 looks like power to motor after the solenoid
    #2 looks like ground to motor
    #4-5-7 are coils for left right down(i'm not sure which is which)
    #6 ??????????? maybe the solenoid for the motor i can't tell from pic are there 4 wires on this one 2 big 2 small?
    need to see a tighter pic on the leak is it between the valve body and the reservoir??


    The reservoir should also have a filtered vent on it somewhere not a pipe plug like the 1 I see in the pic.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2004
  3. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    I am following somewhat.. Just to clear up the first pic numbers and the 2nd and 3rd pic have the same numbering, just larger views of the solenoids that I am unsure of what to run to them... So after testing some, Here is what I found:

    #1 - Main Power
    #2 - Main Neg with 2 other smaller neg wires
    #3 - Down when 12v put to it, 1 wire
    #4 - Left when 12v put to it, 1 wire
    #5 - Right when 12v put to it, 1 wire
    #6 - not sure, 2 wires run to it, but not sure what they are for
    #7 - not sure, 2 wires run to it, but not sure what they are for
    #8 - is where the reservoir(?) casing connects to the side of the mid section by 4 or more bolts with little hold down washers, and RTV sealant.

    The 3, 4, and 5 do direct flow to the rams with out anything hooked to 6 and 7 (did not do this for very long as I figure I need to have something going to 6 and 7 before I run it too long), and also 6 and 7 appear to be resting on a cast block behind the reservoir, if that makes since? I will get better pics tonight of the cast block that they are resting on, but thought that would help. Also both wires to 6 are yellow and both wires to 7 are dark green, I may have to cut the cover off the harness on the motor to see how they all connect as the end of the harness has 9 pins with wires as follow:
    there is 1 main pos lead
    there are 3 main neg leads
    there is 1 lead for up
    there is 1 lead for right
    there is 1 lead for left
    and there are 2 leads left, I would think one for solenoid #6 and one for solenoid #7, however it would seem that the other wire from each would run or connect into a pos or neg somewhere in the harness? If that makes since, because all of the wires from the solenoid and the main pos and neg all come into one harness...

    thanks again for the help, Should I cut the wrap off the harness just to be sure? I don't mind doing this as right now I just want it working....
  4. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    Your pump consists of 3 large parts
    left to right on your first picture

    The motor (where the main power connects to)

    The valve body and pump in the middle(the part with all of the hoses and coils on it)

    And the reservoir the part on the end with the pipe plug in it (this is where the pump draws its fluid from )and where your leak is I think

    As the motor spins a pump inside the valve body sucks fluid out of the reservoir creating pressure.

    The pressure is then diverted by the coils down the hoses to the pistons actuating the blade.

    The fluid from the other piston is diverted back up to the reservoir as the blade angles.

    You need to setup the wiring to send power to the appropriate coil and the motor solenoid at the same time for the function to work (except for down the pump does not run)

    I'll check back later post closer pics of the leak area, and of #6 maybe from the side not the top
  5. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    Yeah, it helps, The plow actually works without #6 and #7 hooked up, I am just worried that 6 and 7 need power for something as they have 2 wires each going to them, and should be assisting with something like returns or circulation or something? I can with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 move the pump left, right, down, and when I am not pushing down the blade rises... Just seems weird that it works without using them, but I would think they have to be needed for something I am missing...

    Any idea's on those? I will get better pics again tonight...

    Thanks for all the help.
  6. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    Oh, sorry, and the leak is because the reservoir case is seperated from valve body, it looks like it was sealed before, but I will have to seal it again...
  7. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    I am assuming that the reservoir probably has a pickup filter of some kind inside it for the pump. You should look for this when you take the reservoir off.

    Also there should be an air vent mounted somewhere (usually where you fill the reservoir) on the outside of the reservoir to allow air to enter and exit the reservoir as the fluid goes down and back to the pistons.

    If you don't have this or if it's plugged it could cause pressure to build up in the reservoir causing you to blow your reservoir seal.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2004
  8. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    That makes perfect since,, Yeah looks like previous owner just stuck a pipe plug in maybe, I never knew about the vent, so I will need to look for that, I would love to be able to ID this thing or get some diag's for it...

    Let me get some more pics uptonght of the #6 and #7 and maybe it will make since...

    Thanks again....
  9. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    I found a picture of the hydro unit that i had on my old LEO plow.
    It is made by a company called haldex http://www.hbus.haldex.com/products/barnes.htm

    They are sold by northerntool.com (northern hydraulics stores)

    I have attached a picture circling the 2 items that are missing from your pictures.

    The red circle shows the filler/vent that appears to be missing from your setup (possibly causing the seal to blow)

    The green circle shows the main power solenoid (the one that gives power to the motor)

    Motor----------------valve body-----------------------reservoir

    Last edited: Feb 18, 2004
  10. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    Maybe your extra coil (#6 in your picture) is for the down pressure if your pump setup has that function. My LEO did not have down pressure.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2004
  11. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    Yes it does look close other than missing #6 and #7. And the main power solenoid is located under the hood instead of on the motor, so I think I can say that those wires to activate the solenoid are not in the pic I posted.

    I think you might be onto something with #6 or #7 to be with down pressure and maybe one to raise it that could be locked on or at least to keep it in place when up is not being pressed since when only the main power solenoid is running power to the motor the unit moves up without any of the other solenoids getting power,,, strange....

    If anyone has an older snoway or wiring diag that they could post that would might shed some light...

    Thanks again...
  12. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    Does that mystery valve connect to the valve body or to any hoses.

    The blade usually is held up by a check valve inside the valve body after the pump shuts off not by any of the coils.

    Maybe that mystery valve reverses flow to the lift ram to force it down by divirting flow and running the pump.

    Still waiting for a better pic of that side.
  13. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    I know... sorry, stuck at work going on 20 hours, I will try to post them soon, I was able to find out your 100% on about the fill/breather cap, I just got emailed the owners manual from Snoway, I don't really understand the wiring diags, but trying, and one of the pics (none of the ones I want to show you) show the breather/fill cap, guess that will be my next purchase.. lol

    Let me see what I can do when I get home, I have been at my day job (if you can call it that) since 5 a.m. yesterday and hope to run home for an hour or two to get the shower I need to come back in and function, like plowing with no plow.. :D
  14. did sno-way email you the owner's manual? I need to get a copy and I was wondering if I could get one from them or only from the dealer.
  15. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    I got it from snoway, PM me your email addy, I would be happy to send you a copy.. :D Or I may just host it and PM you the link whatever you would like.
  16. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247


    The Pic is from the back of the plow, the second(?) valve body goes has the two solenoid(?) that control the up and down run of the single main Ram by the two dotted lines I showed, and in trying to keep with the numbering, I have shown #6 and #7 the same as the first pic... so when I put 12v to either of the wires on either of the solenoids(?) 6 and 7 nothing happens, I have not tried ground and pos, or both pos because I don't want to fry this when I am not sure what they should be getting....
  17. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    Put 12v on #6 and run the pump to see if it directs the piston down #6 looks like the other coils.

    Maybe #7 is a pressure switch that kills power to the motor to set the downpressure limit (i am reaching for this one) but it does look like a pressure switch to me. do not put 12v to this one untill you figure out what it does.
    Do you have a ohm meter to check for continuity on this #7
  18. OffRoadPlow

    OffRoadPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 247

    12v to both wires or pos to one and neg the other?

  19. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    Ok now i see did you have the joystick or the dip switch box?

    6 and 7 are for the downpressure system

    7 sends fluid to the piston and 6 is a pressure switch

    what color did you decide that the left and right angle wires were supposed to be.
    The manual helps alot.
  20. Mebes

    Mebes Senior Member
    Messages: 451

    Ok up down left and right functions are normal just hook them up as you had them.

    Down pressure toggle switch diverts 12v (on the bottom of wiring diag)away from the down coil instead it goes through the pressure switch #6 and then along to the solenoid to run the motor until the pressure builds up enough to trip the pressure switch setting then the pump stops.

    At the same time the other side of this Down pressure toggle directs power to the 4-way valve #7 which reverses flow to the lift ram causing it to move down instead of up.

    #1 is main power 12v+ after solenoid
    #2 main ground 12v- all the time
    #3 down coil 1 ground 1 pos from switch
    #4 left coil 1 ground 1 pos from switch
    #5 right coil 1 ground 1 pos from switch
    #6 Down pressure pressure switch. Power flows through this one then on to motor solenoid (small wire on solenoid at base with other Pos small wire)
    #7 Down pressure 4 way valve 1 ground 1 pos from down pressure toggle switch