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Need help with Hard Pack

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by acclawn, Dec 14, 2005.

  1. acclawn

    acclawn Junior Member
    Messages: 5

    Hi guys

    I pick up a home depot this year and it has been a nightmare:dizzy: so far. The lot is full of cars most of the time so snow gets really packed down. The only time the lot is almost empty is from 10:00 pm to 5:00 am. Is there anything I can do to prevent the snow from bonding to the pavement? Is there any thing I can do to get it up easier?

  2. BushHogBoy

    BushHogBoy Senior Member
    Messages: 665

    Salt alot. Get a tractor, backhoe, skidsteer, or loader with a bucket, blade, or pusher box, where you can really scrape down on that stuff. I have a SnoWay with down pressure and it does alot better than a regular blade, but for what you have you will need heavier equipment with serious down pressure & more traction. That and salt the crap out of it...
  3. plowman777

    plowman777 Senior Member
    Messages: 227

    yea pre-salt...maybe with a liquid but thats another investment..go to ice forum
  4. Frozen001

    Frozen001 Senior Member
    from Rome NY
    Messages: 908

    The best way is probably to lay down salt before the storm that has been pre-treated with something like Magic to "help" the salt work better...

    Other than that you just have to keep up with it the best you can.
  5. Mdirrigation

    Mdirrigation Senior Member
    Messages: 413

    Salt it heavy at 4 am , real heavy . Lay down sand for immediate traction . Come back the following evening with a plow and loader and scrape it up .
    Prior to the next storm pre treat the area .

    Get the ok from the manager signed before you do all this.
  6. 04superduty

    04superduty PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,354

    bushhogboy why do you have a 30,000 lb winch? do you also pull semi out of the ditch in the winter? :)
  7. plowinginma

    plowinginma Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 326

    You will have a hard time explaining why you need to preap .. which is the best way to prevent hard pack .. a little FYI.. do NOTHING WITHOUT WRITTEN STORE MANAGER APPROVAL !!! and your nightmare will continue when you want to be paid ... Good Luck
  8. Gusco

    Gusco Senior Member
    Messages: 117

    I second the liquid shot. It helps alot for an already packed surface because it penetrates. Pre-salt is the way to go though. The liquid can be spendy. let alone anotyher method of applicating it.
  9. go plow

    go plow Senior Member
    Messages: 322

  10. Big Dog D

    Big Dog D PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,134

    Salt will do the trick. You need to get it down early like when there is about 1inch or so and just let it do it's thing. The salt will(if the temps arent too cold)cause the snow to beging to melt which will create a brine(mix of dissolved salt & water) and that is what keeps the snow from adhearing to the asphalt. If your not supposed to get more than 4/5'' a lot of the time you can get away with just leaving the slushy/pasty snow in the main travel lanes and clean everythinh up at the end. If you plow off the lanes you will be removing some portion of the brine and it will become less effective and will need to be replenished in order to keep the snow from bonding. If you use the salt correctly and effectively you won't need any equipment because you won't have any hardpack to deal with. Skip the salt or use it incorrectly and you won't be able to find something big enough.
  11. BushHogBoy

    BushHogBoy Senior Member
    Messages: 665

    04SD, Yeah that and Chevy's, Fords and Yotas! And Dodges, and whatever else a moron can find the ditch with! LOL... actually I haven't used it yet still in the process of setting it up. Why do I need one that large? Cause I can!!!! and it was still lots cheaper than a tiny little dude that would struggle with anything I give it!!!! I got friends in low places :cool: besides who else has a 15 ton winch on a pickup :D
  12. acclawn

    acclawn Junior Member
    Messages: 5

    Thanks everyone for the help. I will pre salt the hell out of it from now on. How cold before the salt stops working? Last storm the lot froze up at 29.
  13. VAhighwayman

    VAhighwayman Senior Member
    Messages: 155

    Nothing like a motor grader with carbide cutting edges on the belly blade
  14. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    Your blade has a big effect on scraping too. How heavy it is, what its angle of attack is, and what its edge is like. Pusher boxes genneraly dont seem to scrap well and using a bucket in a lot is a PITA. But a loader or the like with a big pusher box will help you clear it fast. You can presalt before any snow even falls. But if you dont get any snow that would require it then you are out material. Well untill it snows.....the salt will pretty much stay there for ever till its washed away. If it dosnt snow and it dosnt rain it will be there for when it snows next so when you pre salt you just need to barely hit it pre. Salt will work down to cold temps.....it just takes more of it. 25 to 30 degrees its VERY effective, starts trailing off the colder you go from there. Experience will tell you how much to dump down based on temp ect. Also whacking the drive lanes and infront of the store good becasue cars will track it around were they go and thats you biggest risk of a accidednt or slip and fall. I'd say forget the sand. Salt will make it have deccent traction. How you deal with it depends on your contracts ect and how you are set up. For a storm durring biz hours we will pre salt ahead of time or as the flakes start falling, then go out and whack the drive lanes and in front of the store with a blade with a few inches on the ground(possibly hit slick spots after the fact with more salt) then clear plow it at night(and posibly whack any slick spots again with salt) Salt will make you job much easier to get a nice wet black lot:cool: Some areas just want people to push once at the end of the day, some areas arnt as salt happy, depends on you market. I know were I plow salt is big.....you go 70 miles south and the only people that lay it down are the municipalities it seems. Depends on your area and your customer. Have an understanding with them about service to be provided before you start doing it.
  15. ratlover

    ratlover PlowSite.com Addict
    from IL
    Messages: 1,325

    Once hard pack has formed you just need to go over it best you can with a blade and salt the heck outa it........
  16. Big Dog D

    Big Dog D PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,134

    It will typically work down to about the low 20's on its own. To help it get enough water going for the salt to work you can do several things like add calcium either liquid or granular, or some people make their own brine solution to pre-wet the salt to get it to remain active at lower temps.
  17. mdb landscaping

    mdb landscaping Senior Member
    Messages: 823

    is this home depot in middletown?
  18. acclawn

    acclawn Junior Member
    Messages: 5

    No Matt it is in Danbury
  19. mdb landscaping

    mdb landscaping Senior Member
    Messages: 823

    watch yourself with home depot. we maintained one last year. never had any issues or complaints. we were paid to clear all the lots. the store wanted us to clean all the walks as well, so we got permission to go ahead, and each storm had a manager sign off on it.......come end of winter, home depot pointed the finger at the property manager to pay us, and he claimed it was home depot. document everything with that account! you will need it.
  20. acclawn

    acclawn Junior Member
    Messages: 5

    Hi Matt was the property manager US Maintenance www.usmaintenance.com ? I have a a store manager sign a form after every service.