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Need a loader?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Ipushsnow, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. Ipushsnow

    Ipushsnow Senior Member
    Messages: 314


    New account and I would like some other opinions. Any one think I am going to need a loader for this? I was thinking 3/4 ton truck with 8' V plow about 3 hours depending on depth. Its about 90,000 square feet and snow can be pushed anywhere except to the front of the store. Thanks boys.
  2. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Can be done if it's your only place to plow. But you can lease a loader for the season and still make money with the time you save.
  3. salopez

    salopez Senior Member
    Messages: 876

    if you are going to get a loader, you shouldnt need anything biger then skid loader.

    a Skid loader with an 8 foot pusher could do that in an hour and a half, partner that with a truck and you could be down to an hour...then you can do more then just that lot.
  4. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    no , its not nessary, 2 hours of plowing with a truck , as long as u stay on top of it... if u let it pile up to more than 6 inchs, u might have a problem

    also, how much room are they gonna give you to put snow, ? does it need to be stacked?

    other wise , 1 truck , 2-3 hrs max
  5. Ipushsnow

    Ipushsnow Senior Member
    Messages: 314

    Here is the grand plan: I was going to assign one of my trucks-with a v-box salter to just this account and then have him be the main salter for our other properties. I figured by the time he plowed this, salted it, and then did runs between the salt pile and our other properties that are all in the same area we would all finish about the same time. My only reservation was there are some pretty wide open areas with this one and the windrows may get a little heavy for a pick up. I don't have anything heavier in the fleet and wanted to see what you guys thought about a 3/4 ton's ability to git r done if we get a wet and heavy one.
  6. 06HD BOSS

    06HD BOSS 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,611

    no need for one. maybe if you need to push piles back. but otherwise the trucks would do fine on that, its very straightforward
  7. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    what are u loading salt with?
  8. Enzo

    Enzo Senior Member
    Messages: 387

    It doesnt look like you need one, but for me I cant really tell much by satellite photos, it would be nice if you got a picture with a camera of what it looks like in person.
  9. Ipushsnow

    Ipushsnow Senior Member
    Messages: 314


    Here is the place right next door. Its about 250,00 square feet. I was going to assign 2 trucks and a skidsteer to it. I figured the skidsteer would be good for large loading dock area and cleaning up around corners and next to fences. This place, the place in the previous picture, and one more about 150,000 square feet and wide open are it for me this year. I dropped my 14 smaller accounts to do just these 3, I hope its a lot less headaches!!!!!

    And to answer about stacking snow on the other lot, no, the parking rows at the very top and very bottom of the picture can be taken up with snow.
  10. Ipushsnow

    Ipushsnow Senior Member
    Messages: 314

    Elite you want to know what I am loading salt with? Well I think I have just about the best salt storage/loading set up you have ever heard of. You guys are NEVER going to believe this....

    A guy owns a huge parking lot near the airport for long term parking, and a bar right next to his parking lot. Of course I try getting it as an account and he tells me he was being charged $3000.00 every time it snowed, so he went out and bought 3 or 4 bobcats, a pickup, and a salt spreader and does it himself. Then he starts bitching about the shortage of bagged salt. I was like you use bagged? Then educated him on using bulk. I then offered to build him a salt bin, and supply him with his salt (he only uses about a ton per snowfall) in return for him letting me store my salt there and using his bobcats to load it. He said ok, and he would "really take care of" me and my guys at the bar if we want to stop in when we are done plowing. Oh, by the way, did I mention its a STRIP BAR????????
  11. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    me and u need to hang --- its been a while since i saw a nice pair or ....bobcats

    ok, i was going to sugest relocation of ur pile and machine on site , but i guess you cant...but he sounds like a cool guy

    try this, plow it with ur truck, as i think yo wouldnt have a problem, but make an arangment, like you will flip him some cash to use his machines for stacking for about 2 hrs.... if the storm requires it... he should go for that... help him, and im sure he will you
  12. IMAGE

    IMAGE Sponsor
    Messages: 1,747

    I'm curious what lots that size pay... you mind sharing?:drinkup:
  13. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

    If its per push like ever 2-3", probably $1k+ per time, if its at the end of a storm, a 1' accumulation could cost well over 3-4k and double that if a machine has to be on premises to stack and load snow into huge piles in some areas.

    I know in NJ, if you dont rent a machine at the beginning of a season, like by Mid November, your NEVER gonna find one unless you go to buy one from the local JD commercial or CAT store. I might have a lot more plowing work/contract stuff this year than last, and running 3-4 trucks instead of one last winter, and since it can help as a loader for my landscape business in the summer, were looking at a cab JD 4520 or 4720 Tractor with a 1 yard high volume snow bucket. Still its almost 10k less than the JD 332CT track loader skid steer, 20-30k cheaper than the track 297C CAT track loader skid steer and has the balls to do what we would need especially if we ever get any big accumulation this winter. I wont be the company that looks like a jackass that has no machine to stack snow after the major blow. Although those monthly payments are hard to swallow at $900 monthly even with a down payment and 0% financing :/ Then again, the rental of a descent skid steer from JD is probably WELL over that per month, were talking $200-250 daily, $800ish-900 per week, figure $2200-2600 month.

    You ever see the walmarts and Best Buys with the big JD 125hp 410j backhoe loaders or a real loader/344j or much bigger 444j ? They gotta be 10k monthly. I guess if your being paid on contract wether it snows or not 60k monthly its not so bad. None of our contracts are based that way though so a poor winter like the last two equal lots of loss for sitting expensive equipment and still no fun toy to play with in the spring :/
  14. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,194

    I think your a little off on your rental prices, you can easily rent a 544J or an L70 for less then 4k/month for a 5 month term. A brand new 544 or L70 is worth around 150k to buy brand new.
  15. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

    jd dave, im sure all areas are different but somewhat reasonably priced compared to each other.

    I was off with the 10k comment, but it was more to imply its very expensive :) Here is a local Commercial JD equipment rental location near us. Theyre one of the best around.


    554j for $5,500 monthly plus 7% tax is $5,885 mo. plus transportation costs to/from site etc. its not cheap, and most of us know that. We've never rented anything this large, so from in-experience, possibly they would cut you a deal for a lower rate for signing 5-6 month terms.. on that same note, ive heard companies dont' wheel and deal for loaders for winter months, as all the companies try to grab them up, others ive seen have increased rates over the winter.

    If you left one of these larger diesel machines in a parking lot, say its 20deg F out, and you show up and go to start it without it hooked to a block heater etc, are they like the diesel trucks, theyll start but run rough for a minute or two? I know our little 3cyl 27hp tractor starts pretty fast in the dead of winter, but is rough for a while and wont make a lot of power until its warmed up at least a few minutes.
  16. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,194

    All of our stuff is plugged in, so I know it will start. Some guys get away without doing it but I don't know how. I hope rentals go through the roof because it means the people that rent these loaders won't be able to low ball. I hope they start charging your prices around here.:drinkup:
  17. cet

    cet PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,257

    I plow a school parking lot close to the size of the first picture. I windroe across until it builds up to much and then put it in scoop to get rid of the pile and then start again. On the heavy nights I leave it in scoop and plow the whole thing once leaving what ever rolls off and then plow it again perfect. I have a 8'6" V blade with wings so it will move a large amount of snow in one pass. I know the backhoe we use with a push box moves more snow but it doesn't scrape as well and we have to use more salt. I'm not sure you need a loader in that first location.
  18. Neige

    Neige Sponsor
    Messages: 2,215

    We to plug everything in that stays outdoors. You would be nuts not to. Loader rental is around 4 grand a month and you will need it 6 months. I would like to prices like that here also. I don't see it happening
  19. Ramairfreak98ss

    Ramairfreak98ss PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,931

    Well you guys up in Canada probably the rentals figure youll eat up more hours on the machine since it snows more there. at least here in dirty jersey, 28 days out of 30, those big machines are sitting each month waiting for something to push so the hours stay low, just costs to have them available at any time.

    And yes, most any smaller company, heck even the bigger Landscape management companies rarely own these loader machines, even myself, even with big snow contracts for big lots i couldnt think of affording a 125k+ loader that wouldnt get used much the rest of the season for our business.

    Now a larger Cat/JD track or wheeled skid steer loader with a big bucket or pusher, small 50-60hp loader or JD type tractor like a 4720 cab model, that could be used all the time.

    I've been heavily looking into the purchase of a tractor for many reasons and to do snow removal and salt loading, im still not sure if we'd leave it onsite or just trailer it there in anticipattion for any large accumulating snow falls. I dont service any lots THAT big that need it and rather the machine sit at home in our garage or shop while not in use, especially in winter months etc. Id even look into a custom height enclosed trailer similar to our 24' carmate 12k trailer that say is 8' tall inside instead of 6' just to house the tractor loader on site, would be great for advertisement and could keep other supplies in it until we show up on site.
  20. purpleranger519

    purpleranger519 Senior Member
    from Kansas
    Messages: 536

    I've got 2 loaders of my own, but there have been times I've had to go and rent a 3rd and I can rent a JD 320 for $1285.00 a month $420.00 for a week. The way it looks it's much more elsewhere though.