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Magic-0 Question...

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by eng50, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. eng50

    eng50 Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    Anyone know how long the shelf life is on magic-0? I have had a 55 gallon drum in storage for 3 years, and do not want to waste time treating a salt pile if its useless...

    Thank you!

  2. threeleaf

    threeleaf Senior Member
    Messages: 227

    i dont think there is a shelf life on magic-0
    the iceban we use is good forever and i think magic-0 is the same basis
  3. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    Unless you are buying 50,000 gallons you realy don't have anything to worry about.

    Allen, Be careful. When it gets really cold you are going to be in trouble.:rolleyes:
  4. eng50

    eng50 Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    Great! Anyone have opinions on application rates? Best bang for the buck...We originally got it to do liquid but now are going to use it up treating rocksalt bags and rebagging them...
  5. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    We mix 8 gallons per ton. Be very careful just using it as a liquid. If you spray it on a road that is above 32 Degrees it will be come slippery.
  6. eng50

    eng50 Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    Do you spray it on or use some other sort of method like pouring it and mixing thoroughly, etc? The idea we are currently going to try is a concrete mixer, open a bag, put it in, spray with a specified amount while mixing and rebag. Seems like it will work and easy too. If anyone has any suggestion all are welcome! Thank you!

  7. eng50

    eng50 Senior Member
    Messages: 125

    We also kicked an idea around about making a small spray rig that sprayed the salt as it was on the conveyor coming out of the spreader (Western proflo2) but figured there would be a fair amount of waste...
  8. threeleaf

    threeleaf Senior Member
    Messages: 227

    Matt I really do not understand why you always say this statement...I DO NOT treat my salt in bulk and will never do so.I just don't see the point in spraying 100 tons of salt with a product such as ice ban or magic. Especially when you don't need that product in certain situations. We treat our salt when it comes out of our spreaders,and pre treat with just liquid before the storm.There are plenty of events that we have not needed to even use salt because we can spray just liquid and other times it was a all salt event...if you think 4k gallons of this stuff is going to freeze in my tanks then there's clearly another problem..
    I have experimented with alot of products that are on the market including magic-0, CaCl2,mag,etc ..We as a company have invested alot of time and money into applying,marketing and learning liquid deicing and anti icing alot more then any other company in our area that i can see . I am very much into this area of my field and will never stop learning. Matt i would love to see a data sheet for the product you called Ice ban that you had such bad luck with..Please don't bash it if you bought a bunk product from one of my many competitors around here that doesn't even understand the salt they are spraying.
  9. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    The 50,000 gallon remark was ment that you may never use that much in a lifetime and therefore you will have a shelf life.

    I know you spray it as needed. That is what works for you. I am just saying that the most effective way to apply Magic, IMO is to completely mix 8 gallons per ton and spread it with the spreader. I have been in your shoes selling to everyone and trying different products. Steve may remember when I bought 400 gallons from Morin and treated 2 loads and my pile froze, the Hospitals Hopper froze solid the night before we both used it. (I always loaded him a day or 2 prior to the storm). I had gone back for 600 more to treat a local towns piles. There was 2 inches of ice on the top of the liquid inside the tank while it sat for about a week (no it didn't rain or snow to get water in the tank) Plus I have spread iceban in the middle of the night when temps where well below Freezing without results, Using Magic treated Salt with the same applications/temps etc. the following storm with great results in a couple hours. Temps around us have not been very cold during the past 4 winters. I have been using this stuff for 6 years now.

    What ever works for you. I am just telling you my experiences. As I said before. When it gets real cold you will see the difference in the products. Everything works right now. It isn't cold yet. When it stays in single digits for a couple weeks then it is cold.

    Remember my parking lots where wet and black way before anyone else's around here. I didn't start using this stuff last year.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  10. NW Snow Removal

    NW Snow Removal Senior Member
    Messages: 533

    My experience with magic is one that I wish I could forget. sorry it is so long.

    After hearing about all the great benefits we decided to pre-treat our salt and to use liquid on a few of our roadway jobs. We go through about 1500 tons a winter and with pretreating they said I could shave 30% off of our salt usage. So, We bought a 6400 gallon tank and a 300 gallon sprayer and ordered a truckload. Treating the 1st 200 tons we had delivered went well until the temperature hit less than 10*. My intentions were to additionally spray liquid as I loaded our 30 trucks on these cold night so we could 'as they said' "burn the snow away even in single digits". Even after being assured that it would work great, it resulted in 30 guys with salt bricks in their spreaders 2 hours later when they were starting to salt.

    Then on a Lot in -5* weather the liquid sprayer boom was frozen with straight liquid. So within the first month I had had 2 things happen that were unheard of with magic according to our salesman. and, he'd see what he could do. They wanted to test our liquid so we sent it in beginning of january 09. mid february comes and the testing still isnt conclusive, but then in the beginning of march they finally have a response. the shipment was contaminated and since we used a bunch of it to treat our salt they couldn't do a full refund. Well what he said was that we could get half our money back or get a new tanker? Why on earth would I want more of a product that is ******* me over? Especially now that the winter is over what good will a tanker do me? So we say we'll take our money. Still to this day I haven't received it all and they are paying very slow. and we are so freaking pissed it. is ridiculous.

    I have a 6400 gallon tank and a 300 gallon sprayer for sale in chicago if anyone is interested.
  11. threeleaf

    threeleaf Senior Member
    Messages: 227

    I prefer not to get into this subject with on this forum, but i just went to morins web site and he doesn't even sell ice ban
    this is from his web site
    Winter Management Services of CT, LLC is a distributor of ICE▪KICKER®, the ice and snow control product that is rapidly becoming the de-icer of choice.
    so maybe you didn't have a issue with ice ban
    Now the last storm yes your LOT here in my town was clear.BUT correct me if I'm wrong your treated the lot before the storm with salt treated with magic-0 then when you were done plowing you treated again with salt treated with magic-0. Now that same storm i used minimal salt on my accounts maybe 2 tons of straight salt.We usually spread around 10 to 12 tons..We treated with just liquid before the storm and during the event. I had no issues with slick grounds even with my application rate at 50 gal per lane mile..i just think you need to compare your products apples to apples. My LOTS in town were down to water also. with no refreeze issues with no use of that costly stuff called salt.
    I didn't't start using this stuff last year
    I love this little dig. just because i refuse to go around talking about how i use ice ban to everyone around doesn't mean we just started using liquid.I have had my spray rig for the last 4 years hmm...
    And let me just say one last thing yes i sell my product to alot of people around they have never had an issue with my product...
    Hey come up and ill GIVE you some to try and if you have a legit problem ill stock magic-0 just for when it gets very cold and then i wont have an issue .
    What im trying to get at Matt is broaden your horizons theres always a another way of doing things....
    P.S Tag your IT ..your buying breakfast next storm :nod:
  12. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    There is nothing wrong with friendly conversation.......Your lots look great. I am talking about 6 years ago when I had the issues with iceban. As for the lot next to your shop I only pretreated then hit it again right up against the building because of the wind drifts. As it was I had to go back the following day and plow 3 " of wind drift at the front doors and I hit it again just for good measures and liability reasons. One day I will show you how much I salt and the amount of salt I use. Maybe we can do a comparison with the liquid spray too.

    Back 5-6 years ago Morin was the iceban distributer in the area. There is another guy (KDM) that he was supposed to be partners with (next to greencycle now) and that fell though. They both sold the same stuff at the time. Morin probably sells something different now.

    As for using liquid, I really just haven't made the extra effort yet. Right now it is just not cost effective to use a bunch of different products. Trust me, I wish I had your resources, just couldn't ever get good dependable help. Your business has grown tremendously and I applaud you for that. 2 heads are better than one if you know what I mean. Priorities have just changed for me. It especially gets tough once you have a family. My priorities have change alot in the past 3 years so having the extra $$ for sprayers and equipment isn't available like it used to be. It is just easier for me to use treated salt right now. My Magic Dealer treats me pretty well with the price so it isn't worth spraying my own piles anymore. Maybe next year when I build the new truck I will set up a liquid rig since I will have a few more options. I would love to maybe try out spraying my accounts with just liquid to see if there is a huge cost savings or not. Maybe we can work something out if you are interested.

    Merry Christmas! Looks like we both will be working on Christmas:dizzy:
  13. WingPlow

    WingPlow Senior Member
    Messages: 634

    you guys can keep the dicussion between yourselves i just have one question...

    wheres breakfast gonna be next storm ???? xysport
  14. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    Anytime bud. Just send me a txt and I can meet you I am sure!
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2009
  15. threeleaf

    threeleaf Senior Member
    Messages: 227

    how is everything?
    Matt is buying next time it snows at lucky cup in terryville:D
    we have to alternate who buys everytime i hate paying:)
    I like these discusions I learn more and more
    i would love to do a little side by side comp. someday it would be interesting...
    Matt i sprayed maybe 6 ton of salt today for a customer. do you loose alot when it runs out..does it even run out.wheni sprayed i set my pressure to what i think is 8 gal per ton but it seemed like alot and i forgot what my tank was at when i started so now i dont remember what i put on..:dizzy:
  16. nighthawk117

    nighthawk117 Senior Member
    from Ma
    Messages: 165

    Allen, I will be calling you next week for some Ice-Ban 250 if you have it? The dealer told me that another guy in my area just got 4500 gals so I went to buy some from him and guess what, its not the IB 250. This is a bit frustrating trying to find out who has it. :realmad: Talk to you later.
  17. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    Lucky cup it is, I will buy, the first time!:nod:

    I never really had much of an issue with it running out. Until it gets really warm like the spring time. But there is still enough left on the pile to work just fine. Using 8gallon per ton you don't need to put down as much salt. It is the Liquid that does all the work. Every notice a salt in a parking that is still a full granular and the area around it is all melted? That kinda gives you and idea.

    I pretreated 4 places yesterday with about a half of a ton. I am very happy I did. They are high traffic area and really just is a liability thing. But the CVS on Rt 6 was nice and bare this morning. That place has been packed with cars for the past 2 days. The constant traffic moves the material around the parking lot. Works well
  18. T-MAN

    T-MAN PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,363

    That would be water in the tank. If the Ice Ban was bad, how would just the top 2" freeze ?

    My first attempts with Magic were a disaster as well. Frozen v-boxes, re-freezing of lots.
    Now a few years later, and learning a thing or 2 brings me to the conclusion that Ice Ban works as well as Magic. The one thing I have found is wet salt is wet salt. Spray bulk, pour mix or blend magic on wet rock salt, it freezes up quite nicely. Same goes for Ice Ban.
    You can only coat salt. If its already wet you will dilute the liquid product down to nothing. Same goes for wet concrete snow, with an extremely high water content. Washes away any and all residual from liquids.

    Might just have to do a test :drinkup:
    Any suggestions ?
    Still got some Magic, plenty of Ice ban, and some liquid cal.
  19. hlntoiz

    hlntoiz Senior Member
    from NW, CT
    Messages: 588

    My tank was 100% emptied and filled directly from the distributers tank. :dizzy:
    I have always been very careful with making sure water doesnt' get on the salt or in the liquid. I also always made sure the salt was pretty dry. The 100's of tons of Salt I sprayed with Magic I am sure a few where wet and I never had a problem.:rolleyes:d

    It probably was a bad batch. When I told the distributer he was pretty pissed.
  20. threeleaf

    threeleaf Senior Member
    Messages: 227

    very well said my freind....
    we did a little test last night with some diff stuff we had laying around no magic though Matt sorry.But Matt CVS looked to be a perfect picture for Magic this morning..
    i ran a sprayer last night with some IB 200
    my man Jose ran a spreader with IB 250 coated salt
    and i refilled with some liquid cal for my large comm in farmington..
    this morning
    IB 200 was a complete waste . I think we got to much rain up here in the hills but i tried
    IB 250coated salt was applied just perfect and it worked great (But I still had to use salt)
    liquid cal with a rate of 40 gallons per lane mile worked by far the best for this type of weather..
    We have been getting some really wet salt for some reason .. i got a load on monday and t had chunks the size of my spreader... we had to screen the stuff and send the rest back:(