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Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by michande, Feb 12, 2011.

  1. michande

    michande Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    I am new to this site and have read alot about complaints about lowballers. First I should say that I agree that in a perfect world it should be a level playing field. And I should say that I don't do commercial plowing. I do some driveways for some ranchers but stay out of town. But what keeps everyone paying insurance and being legit? Why not drop that stuff and either have a larger profit margin or have the pricing flexibility? We all take liberties when it comes to laws and business, I do alot of ag work and I have never seen such creative accounting, but every year my CPA signs off on all my deductions. In agriculture most is done with a handshake and cash. I like it that way, the less the govt knows about me the better off I am generally speaking.
    Everyone knows we don't operate on a level playing field when it comes to business in any industry. Someone else dictates the rules of the game and often times they are in direct contridiction of the govt rules. We all choose to role the dice, otherwise we would work for someone else, but everyone's risk tolerance is different.
  2. thelettuceman

    thelettuceman PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,218

    Well said ..... but I still do not like lowballers
  3. clark lawn

    clark lawn PlowSite.com Addict
    from NE ohio
    Messages: 1,233

    why not drop insurance? i happen to like everything that i own and have worked very hard for.
  4. wellnermp

    wellnermp Senior Member
    from Alaska
    Messages: 102

    Obviously everyone's situation is different. I'm guessing where you are in CO is alot like some of the places I plow in Montana or back home in Alaska. Rural folks who are just happy to be able to get out to the highway. However, I also plow in town. I'm sure it's not anything like Chicago or DC or any place like that, but there's a lot more going on, lots of different kinds of people that may be more prone to having an accident and blaming somebody else for it. That said, I have insurance, and I am licensed because I have a business, and that's what is responsible. It's also required by law.
  5. michande

    michande Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    One old rancher pays me with a cup of coffee. I don't charge him and I think he is more lonely than anything else. Another guy shoes my horses. I read on another post where there was a liability concern about someone falling in the parking lot. That is exactly why I wont go into town. Last year I fell in the local general store lot, I looked like a cartoon character, legs going every direction. Stupid cowboy boots on ice. Lucky my spurs didn't get a hold of anything important. I wouldnt think of filing a lawsuit.
    There will always be fly by night companies that come and go. They will cut corners, they will be significantly cheaper. They will end up with unhappy clients. Period.
  6. Rc2505

    Rc2505 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,245

    I too have worked way to hard for all the things I own. I completly hear what your saying, I just can't comprehend it. Dropping insurance just to make a buck this week, but take a chance of handing everything I own over to some idiot that decides to wear high heels, ( not bashing the op ) cowboy boots, or dress shoes on snow and ice. I mean comon sense tells you that hard smooth surfaces is not going to grip anything on a wet slippery surface. The problem is everyone is sue happy, and I am not willing to take the chance. I guess I will just continue to work for business that want to play it as safe as I do, and take pride in the saftey of the lots.
  7. Omran

    Omran Senior Member
    from KY
    Messages: 265

    Well with all my respect, but I don't get your point from all that, hey I swear I am not trying to make you mad, but I might be a little slow, ( If I drop my Insurance then I Know I will stay home with no Work). First thing my cleints ask me to do is faxing them my Insurance LOL
  8. michande

    michande Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    Exactly. Any commercial work requires some sort of liability insurance paperwork. It happens no matter what business you are in. One of the other threads had said that was how they were being undercut on pricing.
    The only way I can see someone undercutting price is through volume. That may or may not produce good results.
    All I really wanted was to make people think that they are making the correct decisions by doing things the right way. Everyone has the option of running their business completely illegally, but with that comes the risk of losing everything.
  9. JTVLandscaping

    JTVLandscaping Senior Member
    Messages: 862

    If you have no insurance, you should be required by law to notify the client of such. I get nervous enough about getting sued, and I'm covered. I can only imagine how I'd be if I weren't. I figure most people assume the contractor is insured, it wouldn't be fair to them to find out the hard way. People tend to be very nice until you slide through a garage door or back into the side porch. (no I haven't done it...YET) You do that, then all they wanna talk about is how you're gonna pay for it. People can make their deals however they want, and I kinda like those guys who are simply plowing for fun and to help others. You must be very nice guys. They're not lowballers. They're not running around taking 55 driveways at $5.00 less than me. All I can say is be careful. I can't pay my insurance and you can't pay for homeowner damage with a cup of coffee.
  10. michande

    michande Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    This may be a foolish way of thinking but I hope that people out here and people that I help out are different. Pulled 8 people out of the ditch last week, the thought of them coming after me for car damage never crossed my mind. The only thing that i thought is that if they start walking in this wind and cold they could die. I don't want to live where covering my butt is priority number one. Maybe in a week I will be back on here getting sued. I really hope I haven't put too much faith in people.
    I couldnt imagine doing 55 driveways. During haying season I am a mental taco. I hate the weather, weather forcasters, breakdowns, I get frustrated because even with the best intentions hay still may get rained on. I can't please some people even when I am buying their entire field. I couldn't imagine having 55 critics everytime it snows.
  11. Watkins

    Watkins Member
    Messages: 60

    Having insurance is worth the 1200 - 6k a year when you think of important factors like who you have working for you, what may happen if one of your guys have an accident on site by mistake or god forbid a pedestrian gets hit.

    It's well worth the piece of mind and it's being the responsible contractor.
  12. Jacobsmovinsnow

    Jacobsmovinsnow Senior Member
    Messages: 315

    If a lowballer has good safe equipment, proper insurance and a good work ethic, there isnt nothing wrong with the way he prices. Dont shop a Walmart then, dont fuel up at the cheapest gas outlet. Buy only American. ussmileyflag Up here check to see its made in Canada. tymusic I dont understand all the complaints. We buy our majority of good overseas, only to make them rich and powerful, we fight all their battles for them,:jester: they sit back and do nothing. It was a big deal that one navy ship from their country was patrolling the Indian Ocean for pirates. Your country is up to its neck in debt to the rich lazy foreigners but you dont want to be taxed more to get out of it. You are your own worst enemy

    CT-TILEMAN Member
    Messages: 61

    Our country for the most part was founded on the principle that we don't like taxes, we fought a war with the King of England over tea taxes. Our philosophy is quite different from our friends in Canada when it comes to our acceptable level of taxation.

    BTW, I have many friends from Canada that will drive to the US "supposedly on vacation or as you sometimes call it holiday" to buy goods in the US for their vehicle so they can avoid the broker fees, GST, and PST.

    Our own worst enemy is the Democrat party and their free spending ways and not the fact that the people are happy with the spending going on, we are not. We just had an election and did a pretty good job of cutting Obama's balls off, hopefully in the next election our own worst enemy is defeated for good.

    BTW, low baller's suck, but in a free market economy everyone has to compete, we don't need the Government telling us what we need to do or how to do it, it's Un-American to a lot of us to even think that way.

    Thumbs Up
  14. Jacobsmovinsnow

    Jacobsmovinsnow Senior Member
    Messages: 315

    You forgot to comment on the fact that your country is up to its neck in debt to foreign powers and the next super power is doing nothing to help in the war against terrorism except in its own borders.
  15. Watkins

    Watkins Member
    Messages: 60

    That's due to our government not listening to the people of the united states, they like to make their own rules here.

    We even get fines for people not keeping their lawn cut in the hottest months of the summer or not keeping fire hydrants clear of snow after a 2 ft snowfall.
    I feel our government is failing us and we need a recall.
  16. Rc2505

    Rc2505 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,245

    Wow, did this thread get a little off subject.
  17. procut1

    procut1 Senior Member
    Messages: 380

    I dont see anything wrong with what you are saying. Helping out friends and neighbors. Plowing for a little extra cash or fun. Thats not plowing as a BUSINESS.

    The "lowballer problem" is not the same.
  18. crazyskier537

    crazyskier537 Senior Member
    from NE IL
    Messages: 129

    Where in Colorado are you from?
  19. michande

    michande Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    I couldn't sleep last night. All I could think of was how many times has someone done something nice only to get bit in the butt for it. I don't understand contracts. If your word isn't any good than a contract is only as good as the lawyer you hire to get out of it.
    So about 4AM went out to watch the news and there was a story about a rancher in AZ getting sued for $32 million for emotional distress because he held illegals at gunpoint until the INS came. Illegals lawyered up!
    I love politics but hate politicians. Someone said something about democrats earlier spending too much. In my opinion both sides of the isle spend money they don't have. I think it is funny watching the immigration debate. Truth is Democrats want their vote, republicans want their cheap labor. Our country is in trouble. The thing that will bring our country to its knees is greed. That is why we began outsourcing everything back in the 80's, an extra penny per share is why we don't manufacture anything in our country, that is why we bundled mortgage packages as an investment. It is why we sell our military secrets to foreign gov't.
    There is a huge amount of knowledge on this site. From now on I am going to stick to tech questions. I normally want to know all details so I don't get caught with my pants down. But not in this case. I would rather be blissfully ignorant thinking that helping people will come with only appreciation and gratitude. I cherish the wisdom of the elderly and believe that they have so much more experience to offer me. They lived in a time where people canned, gardened, relied on their neighbor and somehow lived without luxuries that most of us have become completely reliant on. I live in a world dominated by lawyers that will sue for anything and a judicial system that will side with whomever has the highest priced attorney.
  20. michande

    michande Junior Member
    Messages: 18

    I live about 70 miles south east of denver. I can see pikes peak but it is still a drive to get to the springs.
    Things are changing here, which bothers me. These some of the little towns between here and denver all of a sudden have BMW's driving around. I will stay here for a while longer, then I will sell everything and move to where ever it is that nobody else wants to live.