1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Looking for a new product to use...

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by jhall22guitar, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. BUFF

    BUFF PlowSite Fanatic
    from FR NoCo
    Messages: 8,845

  2. ktfbgb

    ktfbgb 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,437

    It was more of a joke. I have customers ask me to put heated concrete in all the time. I always try to talk them out of it. Heating an interior slab that is pinned to footers below frost line is one thing, and it's the cats meow. But, heating exterior concrete usually ends up bad. It costs A LOT, and always goes bad. If they do want it, I make them sign a warranty waiver. I will not warranty exterior heated concrete. Concrete moves, and when it does it breaks the electrical mat, or busts/kinks the water lines, depending on what style you have. It's awesome while it works, but once it goes out the only way to fix it is to bust out the concrete and start over.
     
  3. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,065

    I tend to disagree......we have a few accounts with heated walks. Most are well over 15 years old and work great.

    I know of at least a few heated driveways aroond town as well.

    The only issues I have seen is someone not turning them on in the fall. None have gone bad.
     
  4. ktfbgb

    ktfbgb 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,437

    It could be my area too. We have a lot of heaving and ground movement between seasons. it can be done, but most people don't want to pay for footers for a driveway/sidewalk, or lime base stabilization etc. I just know that I've seen a lot of failed systems here, and my electrician and plumber also refuse to warranty their work on any exterior heated concrete. I will say that most systems I've seen fail have been electric matt systems. PEX will flex a lot more than a mat.

    I'm thinking that places where temps are more stable with gradual increases decreases in temps probably fare better. Here it is normal to swing 50-60 degrees every day. Summer it will be 95 during the day and 55 at night, winter it can be 60 during the day and hit 0 that night.
     
  5. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,065

    I'm far from an expert, but these walks do not have footers extending below the frost line. All concrete needs a proper base, that is what reduces movement.

    And with heated walks, movement is reduced because the temperature is more constant.

    I forgot aboot these examples, I was reminded by someone very knowledgeable in concrete.

    http://www.cityofholland.com/streets/snowmelt

    http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2016/02/why_holland_spends_millions_to.html

    http://michiganradio.org/post/hollands-heated-sidewalks-streets-were-gamble-seems-have-paid

    [​IMG]

    Downtown East Grand Rapids has a snowmelt system for their walks only. Not sure how long it's been in place, but quite awhile.
     
    Defcon 5 and DeVries like this.
  6. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,065

  7. leolkfrm

    leolkfrm PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,962

    think i would set the tubes under the concrete so nothing binds them? or wont it work?
     
  8. ktfbgb

    ktfbgb 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,437

    I like those case studies. I may be forming my opinions on dated material. Obviously there needs to be a good base. But I wonder what kind of base engineering had to be done to ensure it was successful.

    Around here for landscape concrete like driveways and walks a typical base is 2-4 inches of compacted cinder sand on top of compacted soil. Obviously drainage is addressed but that cinder base is pretty much all that's done.
     
  9. ktfbgb

    ktfbgb 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,437

    It's supposed to be encased in the concrete. Otherwise most the heat is going straight to the ground. Insulation would help with that though.
     
  10. Defcon 5

    Defcon 5 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,799

    The main and pretty much only reason you don't see more heated walks and roads is its cost prohibitive....
     
    ktfbgb likes this.
  11. jhall22guitar

    jhall22guitar PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,056

    Awesome thank you. I'm not sure why they didn't come up in my search. The only stuff I was able to get to pop up was lowes and Home Depot along with some de-icer called Island Heat.

    I worked for a company that serviced a roofing manufacturer whose front entrance walls were heated. The winter got so bad we saw one of their maintenance guys taking snowbanks and dumping it on the heated walkway so it would slowly melt. We thought it was crazy but it worked.