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Lobbying Group For The Snow Industry

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by White Gardens, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. White Gardens

    White Gardens 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,665

    Is there a lobbying group out there that helps the snow industry?

    My beef with the snow industry is some of the laws that work against us, such as no one is held liable for slip and fall accidents until work is performed. Then after that someone can be sued for a slip and fall claim.

    Seems like an oxymoron to me or at least the opposite of what it should be. This is just an example.

    Now, I know SIMA is the big wigs when it comes to a national organization, but do they do anything more than just organize big events and newsletters to talk shop?

    Just wondering if there is any sort of group out there that is lobbying for the better interest of the snow plowing community.


  2. hoskm01

    hoskm01 Senior Member
    from AZ
    Messages: 475

    Not sure I follow your take on the slip and fall setup. The property, or property owner is always liable for slip and fall claims. If your contract with them holds you liable and you indemnify them at a certain level or time throughout the course of your contract (trigger amount, time during or after plow or always) then they are passing that responsibility on to you and your insurance company.

    This is America. Anyone can be sued for anything, right or wrong. I'm not saying I agree with it, but stupid people who shouldn't be out while it is or has snowed will still go out, slip and fall, and try to use it as their 401k. Some people have a nose for deep pockets and the lack of ethical standards to exploit them.
  3. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,707

    Yes there is. They are called ASCA (Accredited Snow Contractors Association).

    They are actively lobbying to change the existing laws regarding slip & falls in our industry, and tort law.

  4. blazer2plower

    blazer2plower Senior Member
    Messages: 544

    Is any one a member? Pro's and con's. Looking into SIMA as well.
  5. 90plow

    90plow Senior Member
    Messages: 739

    I was a member last year. Holy hell I got alot of sales calls about stuff I didnt need. It was good for some information but pretty pricey way to find stuff out you could google for free. Just my opinion.
  6. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,707

    We're ASCA members, and I wouldn't be able to say enough about the organization.

    We're also SIMA members...couldn't say enough about that organization either.
  7. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,993

    :nod::nod::nod: Kevin at ASCA is accomplishing wonderful things without a bunch of fanfare. Check them out they are working on programs with both the government and insurance sectors that will help change the industry including ISO9001/SN9001 Quality Management System.

    Kudos should also go to all the guys like TCLA who have worked overtime helping develop these standards, it's people like Jim that provide the driving forces to change the laws.

    Do more than complain, support the folks fighting the good fight.

    http://www.ascaonline.org/Member-Application.aspx .
  8. MahonLawnCare

    MahonLawnCare Senior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 852

    Asca is trying to change the laws regarding to slip and falls and also make this industry more professional. Instead of complaining about the hacks and lowballers on ps, they will give you the opportunity to educate yourself with a Asca Certified and the ISO standards previously talked about. Look into them. Kevin and Kyle are good guys.
  9. Martin Tirado

    Martin Tirado Member
    Messages: 32

    SIMA Advocacy and Government Affairs

    Hello, this is Martin Tirado with SIMA. SIMA has done lobbying on a state, grassroots level for many years. Most notably on the NH salt certification license and stopping an attempt in Michigan to ban mineral well brine for use in snow and ice management.

    We are also now doing US federal government affairs and have an advocacy/government affairs task force. If your interested in participating let me know.

    Some info on what is next is here: http://www.snowmatters.blogspot.com/2013/02/sima-goes-to-capitol-hill.html

    We also have several relationships with insurance companies and brokers through our consumer outreach work where we are working on the issues of slip and fall liability and litigation.

    Your input is appreciated.
  10. dfd9

    dfd9 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,475

    Lobbyists are 1/3 of the problem in this country. Politicians are another 1/3. Stupid voters that elect the same idiots term after term round up the remaining 1/3.
  11. mulcahy mowing

    mulcahy mowing Senior Member
    Messages: 718

    I missed the first sima meeting. You guys have meetings at the worst times. I make money 6-3pm everyday you have meetings at 10am on week days... Work that pays to be done at that time.
  12. Spool it up

    Spool it up Senior Member
    Messages: 912

    we follow 5 basic principals in the field
    •The limits of the work,
    •when work starts and finishes,
    •What are the expected quality level of the result,
    •Who is responsible ice conditions,
    •Who is responsible follow-up and for thaw-refreeze.
    if written properly by a good attorney , there should be minimal confusion . In and out of the courtroom .
  13. dfd9

    dfd9 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,475

    Not so sure the well brine thing was a good thing to get behind, because when it comes down to it, what exactly is in that well brine?

    But anyways, regarding insurance costs. Can you be a little more specific on what SIMA is doing to reduce insurance costs?

    Has SIMA looked at the whole ISO thing? If so, why wasn't it pursued? Or, would it be worthwhile to pursue it?

    Thanks Martin!
  14. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,823

    I looked into the ISO certification through ASCA. I personally feel it is just another way to put an additional regulating and governing body on our businesses. One more agency to answer to. Isn't the IRS, OSHA, etc enough for everyone?

    In all reality (and I know people will argue this), what if any weight will this certification hold on the hiring decisions of your average property manager? I have personally spoken with many about this topic, some I work for and others that I don't, and every single one of them expressed that it would mean absolutely nothing to them when making a hiring decision.

    As far as proving responsibility to insurance companies, again what benefit will the give us? Discounts? If so, does anyone know how much? I think it just gives them a whole lot more information about what we are and aren't doing. I talked to someone from ASCA about getting a quote, and I was floored by the amount and details of questions being asked.

    Of course, I do understand that the small group of managers that I have spoken too is just a drop of water in the ocean of all people out there hiring snow contractors. But we all need to form our own opinions, and make our own decisions for each of our unique businesses, each with unique customer types, and market niches. What works or doesn't work for me, will be much different than the next guy, so I'm not putting down the program by any means.

    I always find it fascinating when attending a SIMA event, and speaking with other industry professionals, how our companies are all set up so dramatically different from each other, yet we all push the same snow, and lay the same salt, etc..

    Also, on a separate note, can anyone enlighten me as to J.A.A.'s involvement in the ASCA?
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  15. Camden

    Camden PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,604


    He's on the advisory board. It's the sole reason why I haven't become a member yet. I almost decided not to renew my SIMA membership after they had him at one of their symposiums. I think they know it was a mistake and he won't be presenting at future symposiums.
  16. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,823

    I see.. I thought he had some involvement in it, but was not sure what it was.