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Liquid De-Icing Questions

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by Zodiac, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    I'm not going to start using liquid instead of salt, because I'm so small scale it wouldn't be worth my time.

    But curiosity got the best of me, so I've got some questions...

    About how much does liquid deicer run?

    Are there any special precautions to using it?

    What type of sprayer do you need?

    Is liquid biodegradable and environmentally safe, like can you use this stuff on a lot near a river, pond, or lake?

    At work, we rent out these 250 gallon water tanks called Water Buffalos.

    Look kinda like this...


    The brand name if I remember is Water Wagon though. These things have a five horse gasoline motor and a pump on the front of them, it's got a complex system of valves and plumbing so that you can suction from somewhere, and it's got a spray bar on the back. It takes about an hour to fill the thing with a 3/8" hose, and about half an hour to fill it with the motor and pump.

    It does take a little while to drop 250 gallons, about 20 minutes or so of slow driving, and it will cover about 1,000 square feet with water. I've only used these at work on dirt lots to keep the dust down. So we saturate everything.

    I'm assuming you don't need to saturate liquid deicer like that, is that true too?
  2. powerjoke

    powerjoke PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,341

    . PJ
  3. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    I ask about it being environmentally safe because I plow for free at my yacht club, we're right on the river, and usually I push the snow into the empty launch ramp and out onto the ice in the river.

    The county I live in isn't too happy if you've got chemical spills or something else and get them in the water, they're okay with salt, but liquids they might not be, I don't know.

    Chloride does work very well for dust control. But water is free, and works well too.
  4. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    well you should not be using any chemicals, or any salts... sand is your new friend
  5. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    Actually, for legal reasons, we can't use only sand. We can use sand and salt.

    We do have a drainage system that the parking lot drains into, it does not drain into the river, it drains into the sewers and goes to a water treatment plant.

    But because of the demographics of the users and the location of the lot, we can't use just sand.
  6. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    then based on the manor that your plowing, you shouldnt pretreat with any chemical, if you push the snow in to the launch ramp, if you do preteate then you will be pushing snow that has chemical in it....doesnt matter if is liquid of solid .... you would be causing major polution.

    you can treat after , at minimal levels, provided that the surface does fully drain into a closed system, however liquid deicers are design to be used as a pretreatment , and are not effective as a post
  7. hotshot4819

    hotshot4819 Senior Member
    Messages: 231

    all i know is we would be shot if we PLOWED snow into any water source, and on top of that used salt near a water source, We need to use 50/50 sometimes with a radois of certain accounts
  8. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    i think you might re think your plowing stratigy, before the EPA gets wise
  9. In regards to the environmental aspect...Liquid Magic is as of January has been classified as an EPA approved product...Also NYS DEC approved for watersheds...

    Attached Files:

  10. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    ill take your word for it , but is it safe to just push straight into the river? what about other chemicals, preexisting on the pavement , like oil, trans form leaking cars? rubber from tires?
  11. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    Ah, there it is, I did not know it was for pretreatment, that makes a huge difference.
  12. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    Well technically no, it isn't.

    But in Racine, where I live, we have to seperate systems underground. A storm, and a sewer.

    Sewers are for like whatever comes out of your house, storm is for excess water on roads and what not.

    A lot of towns (not all) have one system, sewer only, and the storm water goes into those, which is safe, because it all gets treated before it goes back out.

    My city somehow decided (geniuses they are) that two systems is better, and now anytime it rains things like oil, gasoline, garbage, ANYTHING that's on a road (including city/county applied salt) goes into those drains.

    Our city used to actually have melters they'd tow around, and they'd just melt the snow into the storm drains. I never actually saw it myself, but you could imagine the things that got into the water that way.

    The reason I can't use sand alone is that we have LOTS of older affluent members. Like twenty years ago, we just used to sand, which was what we thought would be best. Someone slipped on the ice still, and because at the time (it's not this way anymore) part of the land they slipped on was city owned, a big lawsuit happened, and salt was banned from our lots.

    That is also the same reason that after the last flake hits the ground, they call up anyone with a plow to come over as soon as possible, I do it for free, so I'm usually the first to get called.

    We are located on Root River, and I don't think the city is real interested in what we push into the river.

    The river goes through the whole city, and mostly not the nice part of the city. We've pulled about a dozen dead dogs in plastic bags out of there, I have no idea how much lawn furniture or liquor bottles, and anything else you can imagine.

    We have a pretty complex system that keeps debris away from our launch and piers when boats are in the water, but it gets turned off once the boats and piers are out.

    On my boat, last Saturday, just going in front of the club's property (about 600 feet or so) I pulled out atleast half a dozen liquor bottles and tossed them away.
  13. elite1msmith

    elite1msmith 2000 Club Member
    from chicago
    Messages: 2,762

    well im glade ur doing ur part about the trash, i just wouldnt push anymore snow towards the river... we have seperate systems here as well, the city may not care.... you go ahead and mess with the EPA, i think fines start at 50,000 min... i know its convenent for you to push it there,... and im certainly not a tree hugger, that is pro-enviornment,... but i am pro- dont mess with the EPA , or other agengys that will have a field day with you if they found out. even if you didnt spread salt at all... you still shouldnt push towards the water
  14. Zodiac

    Zodiac Member
    Messages: 76

    Yeah I get what you're saying.

    We do have a drainage system right at the ramp that catches miscellanous fluids that come off your boat/truck while you're on the ramp and go to the sewer system, I'm sure they don't catch everything though.