KBi Kranking Kart

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by Aerospace Eng, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,864

    For those that have a mix of 24V and 12V machines, this is an unsolicited/uncompensated plug for the Kold Ban International Kranking Kart.

    https://www.koldban.com/KrankingKART_s/34.htm

    I was buying parts to repair the ether injection on my brooms, as 2 out of the 4 systems were inop, and noticed they had a predecessor to this device. I have many 24v machines, and it is a pain when the batteries are dead, as generally there isn't another 24V machine handy to use as a jumping source. I called to buy one, and they informed me that while they would sell me one, they were coming out with a version with next-generation capacitors. I waited, and got one.

    I finally got to use it last week. One of my articulated trucks had a dead battery where it was parked in the middle of a field when I went to get it to put a plow on it. It was so dead not even the dash lights came on, and it was about 25F. Normally, I would have pulled out the batteries, taken them inside, charged them, reinstalled, and started, delaying things by half a day in total.

    This time, I set the KrankingKart up as a 12V, charged it from my Subaru for 45 seconds or so, switched to 24V, carried it to the truck (it only weighs about 40 lb) hooked it to the truck and it started on the second crank. I give it 2 thumbs up.

    It says it's for engines up to 8 liters, but it cranked the Scania DS9 easily.

    It only gives 15 or 20 seconds of cranking, but if your engine doesn't start in that time, it probably won't start anyway.

    It wasn't cheap, at $1800, but it only needs to help out a dozen or so times before it's paid for itself in aggravation (at least to me).

    As a bonus, you can use it for 6V machines as well...Discharge it through a headlight, put it on 24V, charge it on the 24V setting while hooked up to a 12V source, change it to a 12V setting, which will give you 6V for cranking. I checked with Kold Ban and they indicated that it was perfectly acceptable to do that.
     
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  2. cwren2472

    cwren2472 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,294

    Really dumb, ignorant question.

    Couldn't you just strap two 12v batteries wired in series to a cart and add some jumper cables to do the same thing? And they could be recharged on a standard shop charger. Or am I missing something?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,864

    You could, and people do. But using batteries gets heavy and expensive quickly.

    For example, if I use interstate C78DT-XHD batteries, which are rated at 800CCA (versus their normal group 24s at 600 or so CCA), I would need at least 6, and probably 8, to make 3000CCA at 24V. That's $900 to $1200 in batteries and 270-360 lb. Then you add in a charging system to keep them ready to go, and to me, I'd rather have something I can pick up and carry in one hand and not have to worry about having everything charged up or a battery cell in one of the 6 or 8 go dead.
     
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  4. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,826

    1909AB52-43B8-47F5-AE04-ECFC60F9B41A.jpeg Batteries are the Bain of my existence. I only have 2 that I’m not sure this would handle and they are both in the backhoe.
    I picked it up for $320 Cdn.it is supposed to do a 10 litre diesel 80 times without needing a charge, we’ll see internet...we’ll see!
     
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  5. cwren2472

    cwren2472 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,294

    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  6. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 34,203

    If it's the same model as mine, it won't. I'll have to check.
     
  7. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 34,203

    I've got one of these. It's heavy and should be wider. Plus if someone doesn't plug it in, it takes a while to charge. But it has started everything we've tried even when the charger won't. images(3).jpg

    I'd be very interested in something that charges in 45 seconds.
     
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  8. OP
    OP
    Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,864

    It was uncharged when I started, so no risk while transporting.

    I used my Subaru to charge it by holding a charge switch down, checked the voltage, and then changed the leads to the 24V connection. The 12/24 selection is not a switch, it's like a tow truck jump connection, one labeled 12V, one 24V.

    It cranked the 250 hp diesel like it was nothing. Fortunately, for an engine without ether or glow plug/glow element the DS 9 starts well. If it cranks, it starts.

    According to Kold Ban, if you have a low battery, you can even charge it with that and then use it to jump the vehicle you charged it from. I'm a bit dubious on that, and haven't had the right circumstance to try it. The reason, theoretically, that it would work is that since it is capacitor based it can produce a lot of current without dropping the voltage. So while your battery based system may go to 9 or 10V while cranking, the capacitor will stay pretty much at the charging voltage for the first few seconds, which is critical.

    You have a pickle switch that you depress as you start to crank, which allows the capacitor to fire. While a bit cumbersome, it also means you can't blow yourself up by touching the hot and ground lead accidentally. That's bad enough with a battery. With a capacitor it would truly be spectacular, and not in a good way.
     
    Mark Oomkes likes this.
  9. OP
    OP
    Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,864

    I haven't used one of these. I have two of their chargers and like them, but this is only 12V, so I didn't consider it. Noco has a 12/24V one, but it is $4K.

    The other difference I see is that the Noco needs to be recharged from a wall, whereas the Kold Ban uses a vehicle for charging, such as the one you drove in with, the one you just started, or a garden tractor, etc. (that would probably take longer than 45 seconds).
     
    Mark Oomkes likes this.
  10. OP
    OP
    Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,864

    I did some math, and I'm a bit dubious.

    Assuming that a starter takes 600 Amps, at 12V, that is 7200 Watts. 22,500 Joules = 7200 Watts * 3.125 seconds.
    3.125 seconds/80 cranks = 40 milliseconds per crank.

    They must be assuming you have a lot of help from the vehicle battery.

    If it enough to crank what you need, great. The Noco will also charge your cell phone and provide 12V power for a while, which the Kold Ban will not, as it is purely a starting aid.
     
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  11. kimber750

    kimber750 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,223

    Have been using that one for the past two years. Not one complaint. Holds charge well, been able to start everything we have hooked it to. Including some equipment that could really use some new glow plugs.
     
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  12. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,826

    The noco comes with a aux charger for the vehicle as well. I know it’s not the same as the 24 volt but I only got it today and most of my stuff is 12 with the exception of the backhoe. I have to see whether it is up to the task. It is pretty compact, and all the reviews were stellar so I gambled on it. It is supposed to do multiple starts, and the charge is suppose to last for quite a while, months if not used. From what I read the unit can stay plugged in to keep a charge, the initial charge is estimated @ 11 hrs. I have been impressed with my smaller noco chargers refurbishing my 12 volt batteries.
     
  13. the Suburbanite

    the Suburbanite PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,389

    Snagged one for$214 US on black Friday, bought a pair of the GB70's and a NoCo charger too. So far so good.
     
  14. Philbilly2

    Philbilly2 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,418

    Look @Mark Oomkes more math!!!
     
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  15. 1olddogtwo

    1olddogtwo PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,854

    The batteries still need to be changed after the jump.
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,864

    I like the Noco chargers. I have the G26000 for 24V and large 12V and the G3500 for smaller 12V and 6V batteries.

    One feature on the G26000 I really like is the "jump charge" which allows you to supply 30A of power to a battery for 5 minutes. This works well for batteries so dead most smart chargers won't recognize it and allow you to charge them.

    There is also a power supply mode on the G26000 which will supply 13.6V at 15 or so amps continuously so you can run car or aircraft systems without discharging the battery.

    I don't like the fact that the jump charge and power supply is only available in 12V.

    I don't care that there is no jump start mode, since most chargers can only put out 100 amps or so, which is not enough to do anything for a big engine.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,864

    Yep, but it allowed me to drive the truck close to a building so I could run an extension cord and 24V charger to it, which I prefer to letting the alternator charge it.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,864

    Corrections....
    The web page I had looked at when starting this thread said 8 liters, so that's what I stated up top. It was weird, as I knew when I bought it that the DS 9 was 9 liters, so I did some web-digging. Turns out there was a typo and the web page should have said 18 liters. That helps explains why it spun a cold 9 liter easily.

    Also, the weight of the 12/24V combination unit is 52 lb. 37 lb. is for a 12V or a 24V single voltage unit.

    https://www.koldban.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/documents/KKJR_General GEN 3 w12.24.pdf
     
    Mark Oomkes likes this.
  19. zlssefi

    zlssefi Senior Member
    Messages: 204

    I purchased a 12v 24v rescue jump pack years ago. When i first bought it it would whip over a dead td122 volvo l180 engine like it was in florida. IT has since lost some of its snap, and i think the battery inside may be getting lazy on me. I paid 289.99 when i bought it and with that being said if i had to throw it away tomorrow, it wouldnt owe me a dime. I like the idea of this cranking kart, but the price tag has me keeping my distance.
     
  20. I found one of them old start all gas powered jump starters at auction. Heavy it's got a good size Koeler on it but has a cart.