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Just lost a bid to what i think is a lowballer..

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Jguck25, Nov 9, 2009.

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  1. Jguck25

    Jguck25 Senior Member
    Messages: 594

    I was asked to place a bid on a trailer park priced by the whole season. Sanded/salted every storm. The park is made up of four roads all connecting to a major road and all of them need to be cleared of snow. it is probably a total of .85 miles with a bunch of little interestions. they said none of the snow can be pushed in front of the driveways.

    They wanted all the roads plowed and also the front desk area where there is a pretty good sized parking lot about 200ft X 100ft. they also said that near the end of the winter they want me to come in with a loader to take away the piles of snow near the road, and they wanted that built into the quote.

    I am from central new hampshire so we average around 15-23 or so plowable storms a year. sand/salt mix costs around 60-85 a yard depending where you buy it. I quoted them 7900 for the entire season, salting every storm. which i do not think was too high, but probably not the cheapest either.
    They found someone to do all of that for 4400 a year.. that may not sound that much of a lowballing deal to you people other places, but up here in nh it is not cheap for snow removal. I think that that person will lose money terribly on that quote. It was probably just some hillbilly redneck with a 1980s truck and rusted out plow spreading sand with a shovel hahah :realmad:
  2. big acres

    big acres Senior Member
    Messages: 653

    Probably lives there and figures that's 3 years of lot rent, minus only gas.

    (no offense to you if your house has axles.)

    REAPER 2000 Club Member
    from 60050
    Messages: 2,230

    Or maybe it was karma for your racist views of others.
  4. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,993

    Or a well equiped provider with a Vee 0r 810 blizzard who has the equipment to blow though the job in an hour. .85 miles is not a lot of roadway, particularly if the roads are only 16 foot wide like most of the T parks in this area.
  5. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    $4400 - that's $220 to $300 per storm for a little over 3/4 of a mile. Figuring the sand/salt at $100 per storm, that's leaves about $150 or just under $200/mi.

    What is the local rate per mile?
  6. 2COR517

    2COR517 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 7,115

    If you're paying $60+ for salted sand, you're getting pounded on that. Mix your own, keep it under $25/yd. A yard of nice sand will make the place black. They'll think you are extremely generous with it. Even with the half acre (if it's really that big), you should be able to knock that out in an hour or so, if you are properly equipped ;)

    You could make close to $200 an hour if you were careful in there.

    The only wild card is the loader, but you ought to be able to get someone in there two times - Jan & March for a couple hundred bucks.
  7. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,993

    Personaly screw the sand, 5/600lbs of straight salt maybe $24 will turn it black with-out mess
  8. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,249

    Maybe this is your problem?

    How can you have a variance of 65%?

    An average is one number, not a range of numbers. And most certainly not that much of a spread.
  9. Jguck25

    Jguck25 Senior Member
    Messages: 594

    First off, i am not racist or whatever you think. It was a joke because you would agree if you went in there. about 1/2 of them dont even work. but 60 a yard for sand salt mix is not a rip off here. thats about average. all you people who say that im getting ripped off have probably never had to plow and buy sand salt in central new hampshire. I had a local company look at it after me and he said that it would take around two yards of sand/salt. he was been doing this for 15 years now. if that is so, then $120 right off the bat for material.

    "Mark Oomkes" have you ever lived in new england ? because if i said that our range is just that to anyone around here they wouldnt even have a reaction . four years ago we had 11 plowable storms. three years ago we had around 13. two years ago we had 24 :dizzy:. last year we had 19. No one understand new england lol things range a lot around here.
    Last january inparticular, we had a week of some of the coldest weather weve seen for a while. two weeks later it was in the 40's

    And i found out that it is one of the people who live in the development haha. he has a early 90's chevy blazer with a 6 or 6.5 foot plow on it. still wondering how he plans to sand it... lol
  10. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,249

    Nope, I live in Miami.

    From dictionary.com:

    average as a noun

    1. a quantity, rating, or the like that represents or approximates an arithmetic mean: Her golf average is in the 90s. My average in science has gone from B to C this semester.
    2. a typical amount, rate, degree, etc.; norm.

    average as an adjective

    6. of or pertaining to an average; estimated by average; forming an average: The average rainfall there is 180 inches.

    You totally missed the point of my post.

    An average is 1 number, not a range of numbers. Because if you bid by using an average, you will use 1 number--say $15,000 for the season. But if you bid a range that you define as an average (which is impossible) your bid would be $15,000 to $23,000.

    Everyone's weather varies a great deal. We've plowed as few as 11 times or as many as 35 times in my area. But my average isn't 11-35. My average is 22 pushes.

    You average is 19 pushes, not 15-23. You would base your price on that, not on a range.
  11. MBB

    MBB Senior Member
    Messages: 129

    That's interesting, I used to live in a t-park right across from the office, offered services a few times at the request of the resident manager. Never any response. After I left I found out the upper management considered it a conflict of interest (?). Last couple years I was there they had a guy coming in from 30 miles out. Might have been some package deal as they own several t-parks in the area. The corprate guy in the office was always bitchin about the plow service as the service would not show up until it had stopped snowing. Last one I saw was a chevy = to a 450 ford with a dump box and a 9' Western.
  12. Kramer

    Kramer Senior Member
    Messages: 386

    Is this what they taught you in SIMA for your membership fee???

    Instead of a dictionary lesson, why don't you try and help the guy out. Actually, he doesn't need help.
  13. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,249

    I did, I explained the difference between an average and a range.

    Do I need to simplify it further so you can understand it?
  14. rofoth6

    rofoth6 Member
    from iowa
    Messages: 67

  15. Kramer

    Kramer Senior Member
    Messages: 386

    Actually, if you go back and read the original post, he came up with a bid. He didn't ask for your advice on how to be anal about quoting, he posted to indicate that a lowballer came in substantially less than him. He was just bringing up the fact that he can't see the guy making money and just wanted to share his experience.

    So your self inspired response was to chastise him on substituting the word average for range.

    I don't believe I need any further clarification from you.... I actually don't need to pick up a dictionary to define average. I'm surprised that you didn't try to pick on him to see if it was a rolling average.

    If taking things out of context and speaking down to others in the same profession instead of helping them is what SIMA teaches you (as you indicated), then I'm glad I never joined.
  16. Scott's

    Scott's Senior Member
    Messages: 416

    Kramer no one can ever win with Mark he is a know it all. Just go and read some of his past posts.
  17. REAPER

    REAPER 2000 Club Member
    from 60050
    Messages: 2,230

    Is this true?

    you know it ALL?

    Well since you do. I want to know how to make dumplings for stew that come out perfect. Last time I tried they came out rubbery. Time before that they were like goo.

    Come on know-it-all give up the recipe!!!
  18. basher

    basher PlowSite Fanatic
    from 19707
    Messages: 8,993

    I think Mark was right on with his point. An average is just that. If you are doing yearly pricing the averages are critical. You should never do yearlies with-out a muilti year contract. You need to have more then one winter for averages to mean anything. If you are bidding just the one year you can get your butt kicked.

    Also the title of the post is just lost a bid to what I think is a low baller he never asked for help but he posed it as a question. I think Mark was trying to answer his question. Either that or we can just figure that he was venting and really didn't want an answer. The problem is there is never enough info. Did the other guy offer a lower price on a multi year contract, is he figuring he can use straight ice melt and big spreaders and blades with vees or wings to save time and material while providing the same service. Does he have multiple contracts in the same area saving him travel time and making this job chump change? Lots of things we do not know. One thing we do know; 15-23 is a range not an average.:nod:
  19. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,707

    Stick to brisket.......it's much tastier and harder to screw up.
  20. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

    There is no such thing as a lowballer. They are simply "new standard in pricing setters" LOVE EM!!!!! who needs to make money anyway!!!!
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