[RayMich]

the guy doing it for church is not doign it for pay or compensation. isnt that what defines it as commerical?

I'm not sure how it applies if he is donating his time and driving the church van for free if he gets no benefit at all. But if he is getting ANY compensation whatsoever, he is considered a commercial driver and all DOT regulations apply.

If he gets a reduction in his children's tuition at the church private school for his time driving the church bus, he is getting compensation and will be considered a commercial driver.

 

[RayMich]

I dont think they enforce the amber light law real hard. I guess if the cop wanted to really put the screws to someone they could but you would for sure get away with a warning on the first incident

Considering that this new law went into effect on July 2, 2012 - you can bet that they WILL be enforcing it. - They really don't care much about safety, but they really want your money. And if they put you out of business by sending you to jail for 90 days, well, that's too bad for you. :angry: :realmad:

It might not be a bad idea to carry a spare set of flashing amber lights in case your main unit fails while you are plowing.

 

[birddseedd]

Considering that this new law went into effect on July 2, 2012 - you can bet that they WILL be enforcing it. - They really don't care much about safety, but they really want your money. And if they put you out of business by sending you to jail for 90 days, well, that's too bad for you. :angry: :realmad:

It might not be a bad idea to carry a spare set of flashing amber lights in case your main unit fails while you are plowing.

I dont see how this law can be enforced when you are on private property.

 

[jasonv]

I dont see how this law can be enforced when you are on private property.

It can't apply when you're FULLY on private property. Probably not even if you're fully OFF of the public road. The problem is that there is usually some point where at least some part of the truck has to go onto the public road in order to clear the interface.

There may also be some weird DOT compliance requirements when dealing with commercial properties that are "used like" public roads. I.e. DOT probably has at least some jurisdiction over mall parking lots.

 

[dfd9]

I dont see how this law can be enforced when you are on private property.

I guess you missed the last couple years.

With the passage of the Patriot Act, NDAA and such like laws; in addition, the TSA and DHS; the Constitution is just a ________ piece of paper, as Dubya called it. Oh, don't forget that wonderful ruling by SCOTUS regarding eminent domain. Or, that one that eliminates free speech when someone protected by the Secret Service is present.

There is no private property anymore. There are precious few rights at all anymore. So, regulating light usage on a truck on private property is small potatoes nowadays.

 

[birddseedd]

I guess you missed the last couple years.

With the passage of the Patriot Act, NDAA and such like laws; in addition, the TSA and DHS; the Constitution is just a ________ piece of paper, as Dubya called it. Oh, don't forget that wonderful ruling by SCOTUS regarding eminent domain. Or, that one that eliminates free speech when someone protected by the Secret Service is present.

There is no private property anymore. There are precious few rights at all anymore. So, regulating light usage on a truck on private property is small potatoes nowadays.

is all true unfortunatly.

havnt herd of the no free speach with secrete service thing

 

[birddseedd]

i just read the law. it doesnt say exactly that, going against free speach and what not. but like most any law we have created. its so vague its open to the personal opinion of a judge.

 

[Herm Witte]

I thought this thread was a Plowsite, plowing related thread. Must be mistaken.

 

[birddseedd]

I thought this thread was a Plowsite, plowing related thread. Must be mistaken.

Law effects plowing.

 

[2COR517]

How did I miss all this fun?

I don't have a chauffeur license. I have driven taxis, double stretched Lincolns, 220 inch stretch Yukons & Escalades (you definitely want QuadraSteer), 21 passenger E series, and school busses.

I don't have an air break endorsement. I don't have a Class A, but I'm not restricted to 10k trailers......

 

[birddseedd]

How did I miss all this fun?

I don't have a chauffeur license. I have driven taxis, double stretched Lincolns, 220 inch stretch Yukons & Escalades (you definitely want QuadraSteer), 21 passenger E series, and school busses.

I don't have an air break endorsement. I don't have a Class A, but I'm not restricted to 10k trailers......

cause it was changed to 2600 lbs. or so was in posted link.

 

[2COR517]

The school busses were 33k GVWR

 

[birddseedd]

The school busses were 33k GVWR

26000 is for michigan. changes from state to state.

 

[canoebuildah]

How did I miss all this fun?

I don't have a chauffeur license. I have driven taxis, double stretched Lincolns, 220 inch stretch Yukons & Escalades (you definitely want QuadraSteer), 21 passenger E series, and school busses.

I don't have an air break endorsement. I don't have a Class A, but I'm not restricted to 10k trailers......

Because you live here in Maine where we often steal our neighbors motto. Just because no one has stopped you, doesn't mean that it is legal.

I have been wrangling with Maine and Federal laws as it pertains to driving 15 passenger vans, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. If your GVWR or GVCWR is over 10,001 lb, all sorts of Federal regs come into play. Also, if you are driving a vehicle with over 8 passengers.

I still cannot figure out what laws actually pertain to those situations as the Federal and State laws are contradictory and confusing.

 

[cretebaby]

Additionally, if you are driving a commercial vehicle and are towing a trailer and the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating is 26,001 lbs or more (i.e. Truck GVWR + Trailer GVWR is 26,001 lbs or more), you need a CDL even if the towing vehicle and trailer are empty and the actual weight is less than 26,001 lbs.

How do you figure?

Wow, that is clear as mud...
The last sentence appears to EXCLUDE personal use vehicles. Does that mean EVEN IF they are 26,001+ pounds, such as carrying around all 50 of your family on a bus, or carrying everything you own in one truck load?

One thing that it DOES clarify, is that the 10,000 pound GVWR applies to the trailer itself and not the truck, which need only be under GVWR and GCWR 26,001.

Now somebody mentioned a 1-ton pickup and a camper....
Since "1-ton pickup" is meaningless, I looked up Ford's LARGEST pickup, and found it to have a front+rear axle rating (= GVWR???) of 15,590 pounds. Even with a trailer GVWR of 10,000 pounds (the non-commercial limit), that only comes to 25,590, which is 410 pounds into the "safe zone". If somebody gets CHARGED driving any PICKUP with a camper related to the weight RATINGS (as opposed to actual weight), that means that the camper ITSELF must have a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds... OR the cop is ignorant of the law.

Basically, if you don't have a commercial license, do not haul a trailer ON PUBLIC ROADS with a GVWR > 10,000 pounds with ANY vehicle. The pickup itself doesn't matter. Now IF you DO have a commercial license, you're free up to the truck's hauling capacity (Ford's biggest is 24,700 pounds with GCWR 33,000 > 26,000).

Chauffeurs license appears to be a kind of "light commercial" license, where for operating the vehicle on public roads is the person's PRINCIPLE employment, i.e., bus driver, or someone employed for the purpose of plowing public roads. I'm not clear if someone employed for that purpose, i.e., part time, or not as their MAIN employment would be subject to this requirement. The difference here is that IF the person is employed for operating that vehicle on public roads, the chauffeurs license kicks in before the limits of a personal use vehicle. It overlaps with the UPPER RANGE of personal use. It seems to also overlap with certain aspects of a commercial license, which doesn't include transporting large numbers of people. I.e., a truck driver with a commercial license can't drive a bus, with or without a GVWR/GCWR >= 26,001 pounds. For commercially operating a vehicle with GVWR/GCWR >= 26,001 pounds AND 16+ people, would need both commercial + chauffeurs?

I blame it on the lawyers.
Do not believe anything I say.
If in doubt, seek competent legal advise from an actual lawyer.

You are confusing the 2 different GCWR here. The "GCWR" listed in the frod pickup brochure is basically meaningless. When GCWR is referenced in this conversation it means CGVWR(Truck GVWR + Trailer GVWR)

You need to comply, both singularly, as well as individually.
The trailer itself must be no more than 10,000 rated, the TRUCK must be no more than 26,000, and the COMBINED must be no more than 26,000.

So you can drive a TRUCK 26000 by itself, you can drive a TRUCK + TRAILER that are 26000 together, but you CANNOT drive a 4999 TRUCK + 10001 TRAILER, even though the combined is only 15,000, because the trailer BY ITSELF exceeds the regulation.

Not true. Over 26k combined doesn't come into play until the trailer is over 10k GVWR.

Example:

Truck 12k + trailer 14k = No CDL.
Truck 13k + trailer 14k = Class A CDL
Truck 26k + trailer 10k = No CDL
Truck 33k + trailer 10k = Class B CDL

If you really want a monkey wrench thrown into the mix, anybody can go out, rent a semi for a day or weekend, move their belongings and not need a CDL, air break endorsement, DOT numbers, med card, etc.

Here that would need a CDL.

It wouldn't need an air break endorsement either way though.

 

[2COR517]

I was reading some paperwork from a Rhode Island limo company. Apparently RI has some ridiculous limo laws. They made sure every trip went into either MA or CT so they were inter-state. All the local RI laws went out the window by doing that.

 

[birddseedd]

Because you live here in Maine where we often steal our neighbors motto. Just because no one has stopped you, doesn't mean that it is legal.

I have been wrangling with Maine and Federal laws as it pertains to driving 15 passenger vans, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. If your GVWR or GVCWR is over 10,001 lb, all sorts of Federal regs come into play. Also, if you are driving a vehicle with over 8 passengers.

I still cannot figure out what laws actually pertain to those situations as the Federal and State laws are contradictory and confusing.

each level officer enforces their jursidictiosn laws. like weed med cards in michigan. a michigan state cop wont other you, but get caught by a federal police officer and your going to jail

 

[theholycow]

RI has craploads of ridiculous laws.

Fixed that for you.

 

[dfd9]

I thought this thread was a Plowsite, plowing related thread. Must be mistaken.

Politicians made the laws that are reducing our freedom to operate a business in a free market, without regulations.

No DOT numbers and stupid laws, and this thread wouldn't have happened.

 

[jasonv]

My question is... why have DOT numbers at all? You would think that that info could just be associated with the license plate number.