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insurance as a sub contactor

Discussion in 'Business Fundamentals' started by fordboy, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. fordboy

    fordboy Senior Member
    Messages: 300

    wondering what you all are carrying for insurance as a sub. WOndering if I should plan on doing somthing different as far as insurance next season as i belive our season is pretty much done.Thanks for the input
  2. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    What do you think a sub is?

    A sub, is a contractor who is hired to do a job by an other contractor.

    I'm a contractor, I have a lot that I want to hire out.
    I hire an other contractor to plow it, they just became a sub-contractor and I became the general contractor.

    An employee is not a sub nor is a substitute plower a sub.

    So set up your business, go legit, become a contractor and get the proper commercial ins.

    Don't let the name sway you, plowing residential drives is commercial work, anytime money passes hands it is commercial work.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2008
  3. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,236

    Isn't it one of those things that goes underwater with torpedoes and missiles?

    Or are you talking about a sub sandwich?
  4. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    sub par
    sub prime.
    sub standard

    Your a contractor if you run your Binky from start to finish.
    Your a sub contractor if you don't.......:angel:
  5. fordboy

    fordboy Senior Member
    Messages: 300

    This is the situation, I have been working for a friend for the last four years. When I started working for him I was told I was covered by his insurance because I recieved a 1099 from him and all contracts were in his name. Never checked to verify but trusted him to be honest and have worked under that assumption for the last four years. This year everything started off great but as the year as progressed he has tried not to use me as much as he normally would. Since I have made friends in the industry over the years I recieved phone calls from others asking me to pick up work for them when they heard I was not staying busy working for him. I agreed and am not having trouble finding work for the most part but now am cocerned about liability. Should I just pull a business liscense and insurance? Generaly how much am I looking at for insurance? I am sure it varys from state to state. Now sno farmer made the comment to go legit, I believe I have been legit since we have been filing the 1099, am I assuming correct? thanks for the input.
  6. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    Now don't get mad at me..
    But I believe your "friend has been taking advantage of you.
    He should have filed a w2?...
    Read this site and think about what happened regardless of the 1099.

    Subcontractor or general contractor you would have your own INS and allready be liget..You were an employee. There is nothing wrong with that it's just the facts..

    It's not a state thing it's a Federal thing.

    So go out there and start a business and be a contractor..

  7. scottL

    scottL PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,613

    He could file a W2 or 1099. The case could be argued wither way.

    Get your own insurance any way. A 1mi/3mil general contractors policy that includes snow plowing is cheap, $200-$500 a year. If for some reason the guy you work for his insurance has an issue or if he turns on you you would be covered. Unless he has his insurance company issue you a statement directly showing you covered ... your not covered until it hits court.
  8. bluerage94

    bluerage94 Senior Member
    Messages: 398

    I agree it could go either way... Employee's should get a W2 and if he is subbing out jobs to you usually a 1099 which benefits him.
  9. BulldogPS

    BulldogPS Member
    Messages: 35

    I would highly recommend liability insurance if you plan to work for yourself at all. If you damage property plowing something that is not an account of the person who contracted you, they can sue you personally. You could end up paying a lot out of pocket. Insurance was not cheap, but it beats selling your stuff.
  10. LoneCowboy

    LoneCowboy PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,760

    If you are subbing to me, you are carrying your own snow plowing liability insurance, and my company is a named insured of yours.
    That's not uncommon, that's what I would expect to sub for anyone else also

    That's why Sub's make 50/60/70+ dollars per hour and employees make $20.
  11. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    With friends like that, I could do without any. Get a copy of his insurance policy showing it covers subcontractors or, better yet, get your own. If you rely on his insurance, make sure the company notifies you of any changes or cancellation.
  12. tuney443

    tuney443 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,847

    NO,no,no--it's like a subpoena----sub--sub----means under water or maybe submarine
    poena,poena---like a *****---that's IT---it's when the government has you by the balls.:redbounce
  13. jjklongisland

    jjklongisland Senior Member
    Messages: 470

    Had to ressurrect thread... Same thing is kind of happaneing with me, I plow for a landscaper who I thought I was covered under his policy, gave him copy of my registration and drivers license. He now says I am not covered after a year working for him and recommends me getting my own policy. I consider myslef a Sub because I am using my own personal equipments and I do not get a W-2 from him. Now mind you, I do this for extra cash and because its fun to me. With 4 storms last year, I didnt exactly rake in the bucks. If I have to spend $1000 on insurance and only get 4 storms like last year it doesnt make sense for me to plow. Now in my area, tons of people take there chance every storm just working for a landscaper and dont have any extra insurance. What should I do?
  14. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Buy Commercial Vehicle an General Liability insurance


    Be uninsured.

    Just doing it for "extra cash" means nothing to the IRS or legal system. A judge will not consider whether this was the first time you plowed for cash or the tenth year.
  15. bcf

    bcf Senior Member
    Messages: 206

    Get insured...

    ... besides all the other reasons, if you don't you have no reason to call someone a lowballer.:nod:
  16. jjklongisland

    jjklongisland Senior Member
    Messages: 470

    Well I have never called anybody a lowballer and I would love to get insurance but it just doesnt make sense. I do not live in the snowbelt where there are 40 events a season and make $30,000 a year plowing. We get 4 to 8 a year and I do it for some extra money. Where I live plow guys are few and far between. I would guess 75% of the snow removal companies by me hire uninsured subs to plow for them because thats the only way the snow gets moved. I cant be a lowballer if I am working for a large contractor who pays me by the hour to assist in the snow removal process. I dont make the contracts. And another thing. In NY owner operators get paid on the low end $65 per hour and sometimes $100 an hour. That just goes to show you that plow guys are in demand and there is no whoring of the business down by me.
  17. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883


    Then jjklongisland your not plowing for extra cash yet.
    You don't make the minimum to cover your expenses of being business.

    If you hurt someone and you loose the law sute you could loose everything your truck, house, and pay for it for the rest fo your life.
    Now does it cost to much?

    do you have your own business like an LLC?
  18. ducatirider944

    ducatirider944 Senior Member
    from Iowa
    Messages: 469

    If you are hired as a sub to push snow, you should be ok with getting a rider on your auto insurance policy. You will be held responsible for anything you hit with your truck! The person you sub to will probably be doing the sanding and salting, so they will be responsible for slip and falls. If you are being subbed for plowing of snow and salting you better have general liability, because you are responsible for making the lot safe. It doesn't really matter to me becuase I already have a 2 mil per accident GL policy for construction with a snow removal rider. Having insuance is a scam right up to the point of needing it! I already have one the bet, I can pay insuance for the rest of my life and still be money ahead! They got the short end of the stick with me finding a concrete wall at a race track. My hospital bills were pushing $900K so I feel insurance is good!
  19. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    :dizzy: Do what you want to do. Just realize that the only one you are convincing is yourself. You're the one who has to live with the results of your actions.

    This is not aimed at you, DucatiRider. It just happens to be below your post.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2008
  20. jjklongisland

    jjklongisland Senior Member
    Messages: 470

    You are correct, it is totally not worth it if it costs me $3500 per year for insurance just to make $4000 total.

    My biggest gripe is because I do this part time and make so little, I do not have the same risk as a person plowing 40 times per year making lots more money. The insurance companies are against the guy like myself who is just looking to make a little extra cash. I could see the policy being $500 for someone like myelf but for what I will be doing its ridiculous.

    The sad thing is I really enjoy to plow. I just wish I can find a gig where I drive someone elses truck who is insured and just get paid per hour. But that might not pay. If I am getting out of bed to plow snow after working a 50 hour week at my regular job, I better be making $50 per driving someone elses machinery...