Amazing Rates I am amazed at how high some of the rates are being talked about here. We are fighting to get $52.00 for a one ton w/ a ten foot plow! We struggle with the "lowballers" and their constant under cutting. The only solution I have made work with limited success is pointing out to potential clients the liability insurance we have in place. Surprisingly about half of the commercial clients I have spoken w/ regarding insurance feel comfortable that their own liability insurance is more than enough coverage. At that point in the conversation I am pretty much out of talking points and out of the running for getting the job. As much as I personally dislike it we are having to bid taking a minimum profit for the first season than after proving ourselves trying to get a little extra bump in the following seasons to get the overall profit margin up to where we feel comfortable we are being compensated fairly for the service we are providing. I'm open to any ideas readers may have on this subject - as a dedicated company that only does snow & ice management we have no fall back position when the season is over. Understand, we do not want to get back into the lawn mowing and such market - that is even more brutal when it comes to pricing in our area. Additionally, I am always in the market for used equipment and talking with any and all professional snow people. This forum represents the most likely path for all professionals in this field to interact and support each other. The end result will hopefully be a more disciplined profession with qualified people owning and operating snow & ice management companies. thanks, Ted Sr.