Hourly Rate

Discussion in 'Bidding & Estimating' started by JP Tank, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    Hey Guys,
    First post for me...
    I am new to bidding snow plowing and I have a site that I bid per push. I used $85 per hour using 4 normal trucks or skid loaders with normal buckets. He has come back to me asking for hourly rates for each machine. Meaning he doesn't want to use my per push price but just pay me for the time I spend on site per machine.
    I was bidding $85 per hour for normal plow trucks with v-blade and same for skid loader with normal bucket.
    The problem was that I was planning on using more efficient equipment than what I bid so I could get the work done faster than my bid and thus make more profit.
    I plan on using pusher buckets on the skid loaders, snow power back drag blades on pickups, and metal pless or snow wolf or artic sectional pusher on a smaller payloader.

    So with that being said... What should I charge per item for these items:

    1ton with 16' snow power back blade and 9.5 v-plow in front
    Skid loader with 8' snow wolf Quatro pusher
    120 hp Kubota tractor with 14' metal pless in front
    Kubota R630 (small payloader) with 13' metal pless or similar on front

    Right in the middle of cheeshead country

    Thanks guys
     
  2. BossPlow2010

    BossPlow2010 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,323

  3. OP
    OP
    JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    What should I charge per hour for each piece...
    I know that I shouldn't charge the same rate for a pay loader with metal pless as a pickup truck with v-blade
     
  4. BossPlow2010

    BossPlow2010 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,323

    Do you have each piece?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    not yet
     
  6. BossPlow2010

    BossPlow2010 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,323

    Purchasing or renting?
     
  7. OP
    OP
    JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    I have some of the equipment... I have 3 plow trucks with v-blades I want to upgrade two of them to snow power back plows
    I have a 3 skid loaders with regular buckets... I want to upgrade to snow wolf quatro or similar...
    I have a 120 hp Kubota tractor... I want to put the metal pless on it
    The payloader I may rent or purchase depending on what sort of deal I can find. I can use it the rest of the year in my construction business.
    Project that I am bidding is roughly 350,000 sf.
     
  8. Hydromaster

    Hydromaster PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,326

    Wouldn’t you need to know what it is going to
    Cost you to run that equipment per hr
    What your cost of renting , leasing or buying said equipment.

    Then we can work on your profit margin
     
    BossPlow2010 and Mr.Markus like this.
  9. OP
    OP
    JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    I am not asking what my profit margin is... I'm asking what the going rate is for these pieces of equipment. I need to find out what other people are charging for these types of items and that will tell me what the market is willing to pay me.
    Then I can figure out what the payback will be or if I can even afford the items. It does no good to come up with my own price based on what I "want" to get paid. I need to find out what others are getting paid for this type of equipment and go from there.
    Right?
    If I want to adjust up or down a little bit compared to others pricing, I can as long as I can justify to my client that I am doing a better job than my competitors if I am high or justify to myself that I am still making enough money if I am low.
    But its all based on what the other guy is currently charging, not what I want to get paid.
    Am I way off by thinking this way?
     
  10. BossPlow2010

    BossPlow2010 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,323

    The pieces of equipment you listed for pushers is some pretty expensive metal, and you already submitted a bid of 85 bucks an hour. So you’re kinda screwed
     
  11. OP
    OP
    JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    I submitted a bid of 85 per hour for a regular plow truck... The manager knows that larger equipment means larger price.
    It will take me 11.125 hours using 32,000sf. per hour if I did it with one truck.
    Three trucks and a skid loader I figured would be 2.79hrs.
    tiered pricing
    1-3"=Base price
    3-6"=Base + 30%
    6-12"= another 30%
    12"+=T&M
    This is what I bid to him.
    If I go with larger equipment I will be able to do this with less pieces or will be able to do it in less time allowing my pieces to be off to the next site making more money.

    So back to my main question...
    He does not want per push pricing... he wants hourly pricing per piece.
    I want to find out what others are charging for each piece that I have listed in my first post.
    Can anyone help me with this please?
     
  12. Ajlawn1

    Ajlawn1 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,834


    So let me understand this, you want to do paid by the hour work faster...?
     
    Mr.Markus likes this.
  13. OP
    OP
    JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    NO. I do not want to do by the hour work faster..
    I want to charge more per hour for faster equipment...
    I originally gave him a per push bid using normal equipment. I stated that I wanted to upgrade so I could do it faster with more profit.

    Then the guy asked for hourly pricing.
    I don't know what hourly pricing should be for larger equipment, so I am asking you guys...
    When I gave him a per push price, I based it on the slowest equipment and figured if I wanted to upgrade I could do so at anytime.
    Now I have to give him a price for bigger equipment if I want to use bigger equipment...
     
  14. prezek

    prezek Senior Member
    Messages: 121

    Can’t you just work backwards off your per push price? If you figured 11 hours at 85 per hour, and now will take you 5.5 with better equipment, you’d be at 170/hour for that piece of equipment...a bit simplistic, but...
     
  15. Mr.Markus

    Mr.Markus PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,532

    No that would give him his cost...he wants the market cost that others charge. The best way to arrive at this number would be to ask the client what he paid last season and then ask the guy who did it what he was paid. These 2 numbers will never be the same...;)
     
  16. OP
    OP
    JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    This is true I guess if I want to stay at the same profit per hour but I would have to know exactly what my production rate will be with a bigger piece of equipment... So if I am figuring 32,000sf. per hour with a regular $85 truck... how many sf. can I do with any of my listed equipment? I don't know these productions rates. Can I plow 1.3 times as fast with a back drag blade or skid loader with snow wolf pusher? Can I plow 2 or 3 times faster with a payloader with metal pless or Kubota 120hp tractor with metal pless on the front?
    I think that 32,000 sf. per hour for a v-plow at 1" to 3" is conservative but I wanted to be conservative on my estimates.
     
  17. sota

    sota Senior Member
    Messages: 673

    I would posit that, you shouldn't be discussing hourly rates, but per-job rates. It shouldn't matter if you use 6 guys with shovels or an excavator; that's up to you and you should be able to use the tools needed to get the job done in time. This gives you flexibility in case of equipment troubles.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    JP Tank

    JP Tank Junior Member
    Messages: 27

    Well, The client asked for hourly rates per machine... that is how he is having everyone else quote it as well...
    Either I play ball and price it like that or move on.
    Again all I asked in my original post was what are other people on this site are charging for the equipment listed...
     
  19. BossPlow2010

    BossPlow2010 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,323

    Unfortunately, if anyone on here gives you their pricing, it really won’t help you.
    That price you listed for your trucks that you figure 85 bucks an hour, I was getting that as a sub contractor with an 8’2 vee in 2010, so the company was billing more than that per hour.
    And today for a truck we’re billing way more than that per hour.
    I don’t have the other equipment you listed, but a little tid bit of information: unless the manager is up to date on snow and ice management and industry stds and so fourth, he’s not going to know the different between a pro tech and a metal pless.
     
  20. cwren2472

    cwren2472 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,518

    Just curious, how do you calculate that it'll take 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 24 seconds to complete a hypothetical job?
     
    dieselss likes this.