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Going over the person your subbing for....

Discussion in 'Business Fundamentals' started by wilsonsground, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. wilsonsground

    wilsonsground Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    I know I'm not the only one in this situation, nor will i be the last. I have somebody that I've been salting 2 lots for him this year. Not once has he paid my bill in full when I hand it to him, hes always been atleast $500-$1000 behind with me this year, finally I got sick of it and told him that I'm not doing anything until hes paid current. Hes told me these 2 accounts salt is only included with a plow, if its just an ice even or a dusting that needs salting then these are 'extras'. I can only know what I'm told, so in this case we've had a lot of 'extras' but I'm not seeing any of this money, and I'm getting pissed. He'll give me a little bit and expect I'll keep going, but i told him not til the balance is brought to ZERO.

    So I found out my father does the electrical work at 1 of the properties and he gave me the owners contact information. The guy I'm subbing for said he doesn't like confrontation and that the owner of 1 of these properties hasn't paid him since the beginning of January. Which I find to be BS, if you're not paid that long you'd be doing something about it whether you don't like confrontation or not IMO. Well i gave him a week to get me answers or I'm calling the owner. Well needless to say I'm not afraid of confrontation when it comes to my money with my business, so I called the owner, left a message last Friday, found out he was on vacation so i called again yesterday and he spoke to me. The owners telling me everything's been paid, he even went to his secretary while on the phone with me and she read out the dates of bills paid to this guy this year. The last check was mailed out February 4th. I believe the owner over the guy I'm subbing for at this point in time, and my father said hes never once had to chase his money. The owner of the property even told me to call him next Monday and he would tell me the exact amount mailed out on this current bill, and I didn't even ask him for that! i feel the owner is being up front with me and the guy I'm doing the work for is trying to BS me! not to mention the owner of the property said he's gotten a complaint from this guy EVERY STORM!

    How many of you guys have gone above and called the owner of the property about your money and the situation at hand? I'm sure I'm not the only one, and whether or not its right or not, to me its right. Why let somebody try and take advantage of me. just because hes in his 40s and i'm in my mid 20's i think he thinks i wouldn't do some of what I've done. I haven't seen money since early January and, although its small to some of you he owes me just under $2500, and when i'm the one purchasing and paying for the salt, ya hes got all my profit and I'm tired of it!

    Sorry for the rant!
  2. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    Did the guy your subbing for messed up.
    His contract with you should have had a non-compete clause.
    This usually stops you from contacting then for x amount of time

    If not then go for it, taking over the account.

    The property owner is not responsible for your money or paying you as he didn't hire you and he doesn't belong in the agreement between you and who you work for.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  3. alldayrj

    alldayrj PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,108

    You did the right thing. We actually had a client withold money from the guy we were subbing from until we got paid. Get it by any nonviolent means necessary, you earned it
  4. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    His doing so could have changed the relationship between business owner and contractor to one of employer, employee.

    thus changing, taxes, S.S. workman's comp and INS requirements

  5. gtmustang00

    gtmustang00 Senior Member
    from Berlin
    Messages: 752

    Make this a lesson learned..don't sub for anyone! I've learned my lesson.
  6. Urdum2

    Urdum2 Member
    Messages: 34

    I would call your grandmother, parents, siblings, anybody I could just to spread the word.... Advertising costs .....but most business have a 30 days to pay most accounts they owe for .... Past 30 days then stsrt advertising...
  7. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    More then likely ,its robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just because this guy sends in the money right away doesn't mean everyone else is. So he might be paying other bills fist before he gets to you,Yes I know, he got paid right away so should you from that account.
  8. Meezer

    Meezer Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 300

    You did the right thing by contacting the property owner. There is unethical about that at all.

    It is quite common in the construction industry for subs to contact the owner when the GC stiffs everybody. Sometimes it's in person or over the phone. Sometimes it's in the form of a "Notice of Intent to File Lien" that gets sent to the property owner.
  9. wilsonsground

    wilsonsground Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    thanks guys. i know in his case its a peter robbed paul kinda deal. the owners been real good to me so far asking what i'm owed, even trying to get me to do the push backs at the property again, but i said that's not happening unless your paying me directly. Hes asking me for prices for landscaping and plowing next year as of now, contacted me tonight to ask what im currently owed and when his check is going out. i know he doesnt have to deal with me at all and i told him that, his response was 'i have nothing to hide, i pay my bills and i want the guys in line to be paid as well. being honest and up front with the guys doing work for me goes a long way.' i told him i apprecaite his honesty and being up front with me. tonight he said he doenst think the guy will not plow, but his lack to be there on time and lack of paying his guys is going to affect things. also the shovelers of this property didnt show up the last couple storms, wonder why! haha

    ive learned my lesson about subbing, the guys that say you'll get paid are the ones to watch i guess.
  10. Meezer

    Meezer Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 300

  11. MK97

    MK97 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,057

    Well the silver lining is you may pick up a few accounts with the owner and make more than you would as a sub.

    I've yet to do any sub work, but have had a couple times payments get delayed. I always go right to the source, and never thought to feel bad skipping everyone else. If they cut the check, then that's who I call.
  12. wilsonsground

    wilsonsground Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    At this point in time I don't feel bad for the person I'm subbing for. He screwed him self over from day 1 by having to pay someone else to plow his lots because he was procrastinating(well really didn't have any money) to fix his truck and get his truck and plow back on the road. So right from the start he was paying out the ass having someone cover for him last minute paying them by the hour and trying to coup some money to get his **** together. And now its catching up with him.

    This is my first time subbing like this and I'm all set with it. The headache is't worth the money at this point. I don'd do well with somebody telling me they haven't been paid since Decembers bill from this 1 location, and then when i talk to the owner he reads off the dates. If you know I'm going to call and ask questions don't you think you should stop lying to me? I was even offered the check numbers and dates as proof but said that's alright for right now.

    He's only digging his grave deeper. Bad news travels faster than good news and when myself and my father are pretty well known in this town it wont take long to bad news to travel if I'm asked questions. I wont slander somebody, but I also wont deny things if people ask. Oh well life's a circle of these crooks and they always fail, it only takes time! Prime example of bringing down the industry and prices, you get what you pay for!
  13. 94gt331

    94gt331 Senior Member
    from usa
    Messages: 293

    It's hard to find a decent contractor now a days to sub for with out either, A getting any decent subbing rates off of there work, or B even getting paid or paid on time. Not being ignorant I know what it's like being in buisiness but you got to watch out for your self, but if you do find a decent contractor to sub off that can be a blessing also.
  14. wilsonsground

    wilsonsground Senior Member
    Messages: 201

    I agree with you. There are definitely guys out there that do pay on time, or will tell you when I get my money you'll get paid and they hold to that, and then theirs others that say it but never pay, or talk you down on price because they under bid. But yes at the end of the day its my business, wife and kid that I need to protect.
  15. Whiffyspark

    Whiffyspark 2000 Club Member
    from SOMD
    Messages: 2,403

    I work for someone like that. He always keeps me up to date. Even offers to pay me some out of his pocket if it takes longer than expected.
  16. blazer2plower

    blazer2plower Senior Member
    Messages: 544

    The guy I sub for is great at paying me. I bill him out after each event. And I get a check in two weeks. But if I don't get him the bill within 48hrs after the event I don't get payed. That also go's for his employees as well.
  17. Antlerart06

    Antlerart06 PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,437

    You did the right thing. But after each storm you should get paid in full.
    I know when I sub few guys over the years as soon they was done I told them to catch up with me and I'll cut them a check before they go home.
    I had one said he could wait till I get paid. I tell them you work today you get paid today that's how I do business.
  18. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Tell us more grandpa about not paying the employees.
  19. doyles

    doyles Member
    Messages: 95

    don't have to tell you anything that hasent been said other that 2500 is a chunk of money no matter who you are
  20. CowboysLC_DE

    CowboysLC_DE Senior Member
    Messages: 177

    This is the guy you wanna sub for because I don't know of anyone who pays as soon as the storm is over. Granted I only know a few guys who sub out work.