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Ferrandino&son Inc.

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by greensweep, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. greensweep

    greensweep Junior Member
    Messages: 3

    Has anyone worked for this company and what was your experience with them???
  2. CGLC

    CGLC Senior Member
    Messages: 102

    Horrible stay away!!!!!! You assume 100% liability for any possible thing that could go wrong and they are horrible at paying out if they pay at all.
  3. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    Typical National....They're all the same, all liability is on you, very low pay, slow pay, clauses in the one sided contract to screw the contractor any which way they can...... Don't believe me? Try them and be the judge for yourself but don't came back here whinning when things don't go your way.
  4. PapaSnowPlow

    PapaSnowPlow Junior Member
    Messages: 15

    If they are never onsite performing the service, why should they be liable for anything bad that happens?
  5. Camden

    Camden PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,604

    Because they're the ones who procured the contract.
  6. Mick76

    Mick76 2000 Club Member
    from Maine
    Messages: 2,157

    Should the sub contractor who signed with Fer&son be liable when someone slips and falls on wet leaves even before the first snow fell? Going by their contract YOU are 100% liable for ANYTHING that might happen.....
  7. Rc2505

    Rc2505 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,245

    I can totally understand the management company agreeing with you, but you have to look at the big picture. Not only does the contract say you are liable, it also says you have to pay to defend the property owner, the business operating on that property, the managment company, as well as yourself. So if thats waht they want, they should pay for that. Instead they keep 40 to 50% of the premium service they charge and only pay out 50 to 60% to the guy who is supposed to assume 100% of the liability. Then they take 4 to 5 months after all the plows are put away to pay you. Furthermore if you sign that contract, and someone gets into an accident on the property, say two cars run into each other by no fault of any snow or ice at all, you can still be named in the lawsuit, and have to pay to defend all parties involved. Just because you have a contract that states you will. So after my rant, I have to argue the point that even if they are never on site preforming any work at all, they should still be held liable if they hold the contract.
  8. CHPL

    CHPL Member
    Messages: 82

    We have done work for them. Typically we are paid after 60 days of submitting the invoice. We fill out the form at each service go in have the manager on duty sign it. With in a day after the event we make our invoice, fax in a copy of the invoice and service forms. Then mail in the originals.
  9. AJ Watson

    AJ Watson Member
    Messages: 50

    We are still owed a ton of money by ferrandino and sons. Dont trust them you will get burned.
    They pay really slow and the pay is really low.
  10. xtreem3d

    xtreem3d PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,548

    Do you mean money from snow approaching a year ago?
  11. mullis56

    mullis56 Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 824

    We did our work per the scope at our price and got paid on time and will again for the term of our contract with them. What we do is a large corporate center. Plus, when 4" inches of ice fell last year and every other contractor they had hired, failed in our market and they were all hired at Ferandino's prices they called who? They called us because we hadn't failed and they in turn had a mess so they paid us our price to bail them out at over 40 bank locations and we were paid in full in the terms on contract. Again, we performed and we get our price.

    Also, the contract we have says nothing to the effect of 100% liability for anything as other mention. You are liable to do a best faith effort to provide a safe facility within the scope during inclement weather, this is our job as snow and ice removal companies nothing out of the ordinary unless you do HOA's or driveways. They called us on the bank locations last week, and we indicated that they know our price and we can't do them for less the person in charge of all of them has since called us since we bailed them out, so not all doom and gloom. They just want the job done right, in a timely fashion and they have to make money too. Not the best equation but it is an equation that works, all over this site I hear and read about bad experiences and people talking about how bad the national companies are and how bad they are to work for, etc., bottom line with the exception of "1" un-named company they all are legitimate businesses with a model that works well for companies to have a single point of contact and then it gets subbed down from there. You need to be educated on how to deal with them so you can get the profit you need out of them in order to work as a partner with them. If you perform work for the terms and conditions YOU agreed to with them they are going to compensate you the AGREED upon dollar amounts within the terms YOU again agreed to.

    I'm sick of reading about how bad these companies are when contractors who have the bad experience obviously did not properly read the contracts properly or didn't do the work per the scope so they haven't been paid. Who's fault is it really? The CONTRACTOR, or in most of these cases the person who has time to post on here about how bad these companies are and how they haven't been paid, maybe do work right the first time and you would have been paid...with any story I'm sure there is (2) sides and I'm guessing based on our expereiences that the other side would make the CONTRACTOR/COMPLAINERS looking bad not the national.

    In fact, I'm sure the other contrators that were servicing the bank branches as we were called to the rescue 2 days after a 4" inch ice storm, weren't paid. At many locations our salt trucks, hand crews and plow trucks had confrontations from other contrators who were hired to take care of the sights until we were called to the rescue. Our guys were instructed to say they know nothing and were called to fix the work that wasn't performed and roll up window, so maybe some of the complainers are the won's that failed in their market or aren't a true professional knowing how, when and have experience to make good snow and ice management techniques...just my $0.02 worth.
  12. Matson Snow

    Matson Snow PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,985

    Very Well said....:salute:

    I applaud you for Posting a Positve Experience about a Company.....To many times all we read is the Negitive Crap........Thumbs Up
  13. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    Wow 4 inches of ice ? Were in the snowbelt but we get 3/4 inches & there are bigger issues than parking lots being plowed (like no power, as the broken trees took out the lines). How do you deal with 4 inches of ice?
  14. snownice

    snownice Junior Member
    from 60010
    Messages: 26

    Stay away from them......
  15. mullis56

    mullis56 Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 824

    4" of sleet/ice/freezing rain. Lots of broken power lines where there was less sleet just south of us. It wasn't easy to deal with but we dealt with it. It was like an inch at a time on walks...your in the snowbelt...were in the belt where we get lots of ice/sleet/freezing rain so we are a little more used to it...I can say this it was worse then 17" inches of snow which is the largest we've experienced in 16 years of business.
  16. affekonig

    affekonig Senior Member
    Messages: 909

    I'd guess that Mullis is on to something. I doubt that most of the national maintenance companies are out to "screw" anybody, in fact, I'd guess it's the opposite. They would probably like to treat their contractors well, and they probably treat the ones that agree to and follow the contract pretty well. Sure, they're a business and are going to require paperwork, and it's probably not to screw the contractor, but to keep accurate records and protect themselves. Also, isn't the liability and non-payment risk a exactly the same whether going through a national or not? Also, these companies are doing a lot of work and deserve a cut. They employ professionals to gather contracts, hire and coordinate contractors, etc. and that's worth something.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan and supporter of small business (I don't shop at WalMart, do you?), but there are other sides to this constant argument.
  17. affekonig

    affekonig Senior Member
    Messages: 909

    So I just read another thread on here immediately after writing the above comment. The thread contains an example of a theory I have on why the nationals do well: Professionalism. I read that thread and think about being the business accepting and reviewing bids. Should I go with the well-written, professional bid from a big company like mine, or should I go with the guy that can't seem to get two coherent sentences together?

    Again, I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but it's food for thought. I'm sure there are plenty of smaller, very professional companies out there. Tear me a new one.
  18. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

    This is turning into a good thread with some rational thinking. Scary. Unfortunately the national companies aren't going anywhere. A lot of the big box stores, or chains be it restaraunts, department stores, banks, tires, etc. don't even take bids in store anymore, and corporate only wants pricing from someone who will take on the responsibility of XX% of their stores. For us, not a huge company by any means, but we run a pretty good show, the national scene has to play somewhat into what we do. We've been doing landscape maintenance for one since july 1st, and have yet to be payed, they haven't been payed by their customer, will we get paid? Yes, I'm certain we will. All of our eggs aren't in that basket, unfortunately look around, more and more sites are being handled through a national company. If you find the right ones, which we work for two who are awesome payers, on time, and pay more than a lot of other customers, but yes, you need to be professional, and you need to be able to do paperwork.....rant over.
  19. mullis56

    mullis56 Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 824

    The below is very well said. We don't have all of our eggs in one basket and the right companies have to play into what we do to be our size, and as stated these companies are not going anywhere. The ideaology of them being them being the best place to work for or the cure-all are wrong, I think on this site most of the negative experiences and rants about these types of companies are from companies/individuals who agreed to something that they were not clear on or where unsure of and then complain for not getting paid. As I stated before, guys complain are the ones who don't know what they are doing say and they go around saying, "...sure I'll do the Target for all inclusive seasonal for $11,000..," then brags about it to his friends and family not knowing what he has really gotten into and then all of a sudden the worst winter comes. Then one of the 3 trucks he has breaks, salt prices go up and his electric motor goes out on the tailgate salter. It is at this time he realizes he can't do it any longer and that he has been losing money all along, and then he comes onto sites like this and complain about how he hates nationals.

    Who's fault is it really? I think it is a combination of things, the management company is making okay money on the property, but in the case of big box retailers they are bid cheaply anyway, so they had to find someone cheap to get the site covered and still have some margin. In order to make up for the cheap bid they had to get the location they hired someone who isn't experienced or knowledgeable to handle a contract or site like this, doesn't have proper equipment and then had isssues at this point he (contractor) figured out he wasn't making money so he bailed on the project and again loses more money for not holding up his contractual obligation so he hates nationals. So who is to blame in your opinoin?

    This brings up a funny store about a more regionalized management company, they took an account we had for (2) years and the property owners, property manager told them they should use us on the new flat rate seasonal contracts. We submitted our bid for the 3-year contract, $175,000 per year. They hired someone for $63,700, we had an okay year for the first year lots of issues for them on every snowfall so we heard. During the summer of the 2nd season, we were again contacted about submitted more competitive numbers on the sites and that they maybe extending it to a 5 year contract or adding 2 more years to the 2 years remaining on the contract. Our revised bid, $175,000 annually. During the 2nd year of the contract I strolled through one of the four sites during a salt only event and see that the $63,700 contractor is making hay, they are only salting store fronts, and putting themselves at huge risk. Fast forward to the 4" inch ice/sleet/freezing rain storm, we get a call for the $63,700 contractor asking if we could salt the property at 2am, we didn't do it as we knew we had little to no chance of getting paid plus we realized they hadn't done anything to the sight except salt one time, and we had to plow and chip away to clear things during this storm we had. They were expecting salt to melt this away, comical. So this storm was on a Monday and Tuesday in 2 different waves, then on Saturday we had a 6" snowfall. After the snowfall stopped Saturday afternoon the regional management company calls and asks if we can help. We told them we were called to salt away the 4" inches and they indicated that they still had done nothing on the property. We agree Time/Material for all (4) properties and then go to work for a few days to get them under control, and bill them over $70K for this. I'm talking 6" inches of snow on top of 4" inches of ice on the walks at these places. So we get paid for this work and then again this summer they come to us for revised numbers on the sight with a 1 year contract with a right to extend for 2 more years. Our bid $190,000, our contract now $190,000. We are guessing that they made so much money off of the $63,700 contractor in the first 2 years, who is now out of buiness and last we heard in jail, that they can afford us now at even a higher cost. We increased price because it could only be a 1 year deal now versus 2 or 3, but it can be 3 years if their customer extends the contract with them. Again their terms, our price.

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  20. algieres

    algieres Junior Member
    from 06365
    Messages: 1

    New here. Wanted to know what do you consider really "low"? Also, thanks for the heads up on the contract stuff. My business partner are considering getting into the plow business and it's nice to know about the potential pit falls.