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Fan-boys (rant)

Discussion in 'ATV / UTV Snow Removal' started by BruteForce750, Dec 16, 2009.

  1. BruteForce750

    BruteForce750 Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 133

    Introduction: I've read several posts on this site, and have been lurking for some time now. I've noticed this phenomenon which has recently lit a fire under by @#% and that is people bashing another product in favor for one they feel is superior. I have no problem with people supporting the brands they enjoy, the ones they've been happy with but, when a person bashes another company with out supporting evidence, its uncalled for.

    I've singled out skywagon and I'll apologize up front. I don't mean to call you out, but your a prime example of the aforementioned issue. Please note that I was forced to remove a bunch of smileys from the quotes and because of this you will see things such as (laughing smiley), (three smileys) etc through out the below information.

    All I ask is that we stop the bashing of products when they are not deserved or supported by evidence.


    - Which was in response to a posting about fitment issues because of an incorrect part number listed on their website.

    My thoughts: I'm not sure what the warning was for, but I was well taken care of and they replaced the part free of charge... seems like a fair warning to good customer service if you ask me....


    - That was your reply to:
    My thoughts: Now I'm not a fan-boy of Warn, and maybe I'm wrong with this, but I don't believe City Slicker is a Warn product...it just seems like you try to put them down wherever your able to... Given the information, I'd like to see how you arrived at your conclusion and to see your data to back up the "good for 1 inch of snow and that is about it"...please, take your time.


    - That was your reply to: QUOTE=capnsac;901688]How you guys think that putting a plow on 4 wheelers is a good idea for commercial snow removal is beyond me. I have a brand new Warn 60 inch provantage system on my 750 brute force and I will never ever ever ever ever use this 4 wheeler for plowing ever again! It broke on me twice in 48 hours. First the mount got bent than the winch cable snapped. What a JOKE! You guys have fun with your tinker toys, I will stick to the real deal.[/QUOTE]

    My thoughts: Yes Capnsac's post sort of supports your reply, but its misleading. This goes back to the incorrect part listed on their website. Capnsac I'm sure received the wrong part and him modifying it as he said in another post probably weakened the part or there was added stress from the different geometry the plow was now using. And as far as the winch issue, that can be said for any plow.


    My thoughts: A fan-boy... through and through. While there's nothing wrong with this, there is no need to bash other companies on the premises that you feel yours is better with no concrete evidence to support your statements.


    - That was your reply to:
    My thoughts: It's nice to see you once again supporting moose, really, customer enthusiasm like this is impressive. They weren't even one of the names Superdave was looking at, but you backed your post with evidence to persuade him to stay away from the "junk"! Bravo....

    I saved my favorite one for last...


    To which you were challenged with:

    To which you replied with:

    Further in the same thread you say this:

    My thoughts: You were initially asked to provide information backing your "Warn has had a lot of problems with its power Pivot system", to which you bring up the "bad" design of their Side x Side plow. In that same quote, the Warn dealer says that the Warn plows were great! Now, since he originally bashed the Side x Side plow, one can not accuse him of just saying it to make a deal as he referred the guy to an eagle plow instead. The "warn plows are great" is the opposite of what you've been slandering on this message board...oh the irony.

    Then, after trashing the power pivot by Warn, you admit the issue wasn't the pivot itself but the "...quality of the metal used in the plows, ripping the actual blades and welds loose..." no where in any of your statements do you back up what you say with FACTUAL information. Later in the post you say "...I have 3 power pivots at $150 per unit and going on the 5th season without a single problem.." tho I believe you were referring to the Eagle or Moose brand...

    Conclusion: I understand if you may have had a bad experience with Warn and they left you a sour taste, but its pretty immature to constantly put down a vendor with out any to little legitimate support to your claims. I, having just gone through an ordeal with them over a typo made on their website, can, with a first hand experience state that they DO know how to take care of a customer. Even though I had attempted to modify the incorrect one to fit, they still sent a brand new one as a replacement with little questions asked. That to me makes for a company I personally want to deal with, one who will take care of their customers and admit mistake.

    As for their plow quality, I have no first hand experience, but contrary to you, I have spoke to several people who are HAPPY with their Warn plow. I currently have their brand new designed Front mount system on my ATV but have not had any significant snow to test it with. From what I can tell just by looking at it the design looks very well through out, and the steel is not "cheap china steel". As for the durability, I can't really say with out having tested it. Again, I am not a Warn fan-boy, and in fact, this is my first Warn product, but I feel that there is no need to bash a perfectly good company with out either first hand experience or on speculation alone.

    I can also guarantee you, that after having some time I will respond with pictures to the durability, and thoughts on the plow. Now if these thoughts are negative, I'll post them. If there positive, I'll post them. I'll also do my best to take pictures and describe the issues that I do have with it if any. I'm not here to support one line of product but rather support the products that are superbly made. If that's not a Warn product then I'll list why I feel that way with pictures of the direct issue I'm encountering for others to know.

    I use this site primarily for feedback and to gather information about plowing in general. If you want to be a fan-boy, please, go to that manufacturers website and toot your horn, heck, maybe you'll get something out of it! When I come here to look for information I'd rather NOT see... "don't buy Warn their junk" but rather, "here is a picture showing the issues I'm experiencing with this product".... or.... "here is a picture where my plow mount bent, and here is a picture of the pile it was pushing when it bent". Unfortunately companies cant protect themselves against the idiots who plow into objects, who misuse their products, and who have a general lack of understanding of them.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  2. sublime68charge

    sublime68charge PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,090

    I would think the Bashing of brands and things comes and goes,
    its pretty mild in here compared to other boards that I have been on and thing's
    Ford VS Chevy comes to mind.

    I don't know why you singled out Skywagon and his post but if you've been on this site for a while you'd know of his thoughts about Warn Plows, and not so much the actual plow but more of the Mid Mount push tube design, ok so he's bashing the plows also.

    Never heard him say bad about warn winch's though. or any other of the warn Product's


    though I did get a kick out of his replay to capnsac post about how ATV and plows are junk and he's going back to the Real stuff.
    don't know what the real stuff is though?

    just my thoughts.

    sublime out.
  3. BruteForce750

    BruteForce750 Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 133

    I don't mean to single out just Skywagon, he just happened to be the last post I noticed this on. I do agree that it frequently happens on other sites but just because it does, doesn't mean plowsite.com has to follow suit.

    It's be nice for once to simply get an answer to a question with out ridiculous favoritism:nono:

    I understand he was simply bashing the plows, but he ragged on their power pivot, and according to you, dislikes the push tubes. It's more so that he fails to support his claims with any decent evidence....

    I know it doesn't really effect myself, but as forum goer, its hard to weed through the crap filled bashing when looking for advice. For example, I was looking for a plow not too long ago, but seeing posts like "Warns junk"..."Buy moose not the other junk" etc., really inconveniences anyone looking for legit information to support their decisions with....tis all:angel:
  4. skamaniac

    skamaniac Member
    Messages: 38

    I think that after awhile you get the feel of who's spouting off and who you can garner some real info from. You're always going to get a few people that like to hear themselves talk. It doesn't take long to figure it out. Soooooo, my advice would be to just go with the flow and ignore the rant. Makes life much simpler for everyone.
  5. skywagon

    skywagon Senior Member
    Messages: 262

    19 total posts and your and expert, own a company like i do you soon find out what works and what dosn't, so plainly you can go screw yourself and I hope you buy all the junk plows lol!!!! you are apparently trying to justify the buy.
  6. BruteForce750

    BruteForce750 Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 133

    Thanks for basically proving my point with your last few posts...:drinkup::laughing:

    IPLOWSNO PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,620

    whats the matter bf750, guys like skywagon beat ya up in your childhood, dam nothing like singling a member out, so you must be the new go to guy then. you win
  8. BruteForce750

    BruteForce750 Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 133

    Damn, your reading comprehension must be horrible if thats what you got out of my post...:eek:
  9. ALC-GregH

    ALC-GregH PlowSite.com Addict
    from pa
    Messages: 1,143

    bf750, obviously you haven't been on here very long. Both Skywagon and IPLOWSNO are successful plowing contractors that have seen and done plenty in their time to know what's going to last and what's going to fall apart. I take their advise to heart as I know they have the experience and knowledge to offer sound advise. You should do the same.
  10. BruteForce750

    BruteForce750 Senior Member
    from MA
    Messages: 133

    So even though Warn came out with a brand new plow system design which NO ONE has been able to test thoroughly you still recommend taking his advice that its junk....

    pucker-up kid and kiss his ass some more :rolleyes:

    IPLOWSNO PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,620

    im not sticking up for skywagon, hell he flamed me once upon a time, but who gives a ****, i know it wouldn't happen in person, as far as taking advice, i tell it the way it is, i'd rather crack smartass comments myself, but occaisonally, i remember something about something so i say it haha.
  12. Dankman

    Dankman Junior Member
    Messages: 19

    And BOOM goes the dynamite!!! hahahaha, damn we sure need some snow on here to cool everyone down! Hope we get another artic blast soon or we might have to hire a mediator. lol
  13. WayneSnow

    WayneSnow Senior Member
    Messages: 130

    somebody needs to get a life.. singling people out for their own personal opinion
  14. WayneSnow

    WayneSnow Senior Member
    Messages: 130

    you say we criticize warn.. yet you never had any first hand experience

    try things before you speak about them
  15. ALC-GregH

    ALC-GregH PlowSite.com Addict
    from pa
    Messages: 1,143

    If you knew who you were talking to you wouldn't run your mouth.
  16. MtnCowboy

    MtnCowboy Member
    Messages: 96

    I don't plow commercially but I've done two decades of snow removal at my mountain property which averages 8.5 feet per year. For the past 3 years I've used mostly a small tractor/blower and an ATV/plow system. The first time out this year the plow ended up looking like it had stuck an IED. It's a WARN, though I don't know that their equipment is significantly different from other quad systems -- at least not under the conditions here in the mountains. My mile long road is rough, steep and hugs the mountainside. I must plow at speed to throw as much snow as possible over that mountainside (nowhere to push snow) otherwise the berm closes me in and I must rent a dozer or 4WD backhoe to bust out the berm.

    ATV configuration: Grizz 660, assorted Montana Jack's add-ons and a WARN 60" straight blade (belly mount), rubber blade extension, WARN winch.

    Last week we received 16 inches of dry snow on top of a road that was frozen rock-hard. I took the slow but sure tractor/blower down the road and back to open a path and then switched to the ATV/plow. I hit a series of hard items - likely frozen rock or ice catching the skid shoes and/or scraper blade. I was plowing over the previously blown path when the plow blade folded and stayed that way.

    Damage as viewed from behind the plow: The right tension spring was missing and the right-center reinforcement rib plus the metal plate it mounts to were bent at a 45 degree angle. The left-center rib nearly tore away cleanly from the blade at the welds - expect the top 3" of the rib stayed welded and punched a hole through the blade. The left tension spring was attached at the mount but not at the rib. The push tube was just fine. The pad of the left skid show was broken in half and the right shoe pad snapped off at the weld. This however is a very common occurrence caused by plowing a hard, rough road at speed.

    A local shop was able to repair the blade and stiffen it for less than than $100. The shop folks, who generally repair heavy equipment, advised that the original factory welds at the left rib had not penetrated, which is why the rib separated cleanly, except at the top where there was penetration.

    WARN has a one year warranty and my plow is 3-years old. But since the damage appeared to be the result of a defective weld I called WARN and asked if the company could simply supply a replacement for the missing tension spring. The answer was no. The rep suggested that had the weld been defective it would have popped cleanly the first time out three years ago. I don't know enough about welding to judge whether WARN or the welding shop is correct.

    The rep's suggestion makes sense - however a left rib weld defect makes more sense. If the left-center rib popped first, that would leave the plow solidly mounted to the ATV via the right rib only. The right rib would then be free to twist during plowing and it did, as did the metal mount plate it was bolted to; bent about 45 degrees and yet its welds held.

    Given the rough service the plow has seen I'm surprised it didn't explode earlier; on the other hand, I suspect if the weld had held this unit would not have been damaged at all. So based on my experience I'd say the WARN plow and probably other quad brands are designed to take a great deal of abuse, although a bad weld can undo a good design in heartbeat.

    For my application sometimes heavy equipment is needed and at other times light duty gear is preferred because it's safer on ice on a grade. When the heavy equipment starts sliding sideways it doesn't want to stop, and it's a long, long drop - straight down - off the east side of the road.