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Environmental Sidewalk De-Icer

Discussion in 'Ice Management' started by redman6565, Oct 20, 2008.

  1. redman6565

    redman6565 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,411

    Just picked up a contract and one of the stores in this plaza is a PetCo and they want an environmental/pet friendly sidewalk de-icer. I havent had to use that before, so does anyone have any recommendations?
  2. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

    Just for in front of their store I would assume. You could go in to PetCo and buy a few bags of their product, they should be happy you are patronizing them. We do two pet stores,(that allow pets inside) they do the walks themselves and use solar salt.
  3. redman6565

    redman6565 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,411

    Well this is a 43 acrea parking lot, so i will use regular sodium chloride for the asphalt and I use calcium chloride on the sidewalks by Target, Lowe's and Michaels, it's just PetCo that want the environmental friendly de-icer for their sidewalks. I thought about buying some from them but i would rather jsut buy a pallet load versus bag by bag by bag.
  4. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    propane.......melt it and dry it...

    All other Ice melt products will effect the animals feet as they ALL work the same way.

    The reason it hurts there feet is from the reaction it has when melting the ice.

    Try this take a glass full of ice put a thermometer in it. Now add your ice melt to it.
    Watch the temp drop as the ice melts.

    It is this reaction that (burns) (frost bite) hurts there feet.
    The ice melt also drys out there skin on there paws
  5. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,256

    Yeah, but what do YOU know?
  6. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

    I just did an internet search, looks like "safe paw" will run about $65 for 28 lbs. I would think if you used anything that is "salt free" like your calcium chloride it would be ok.....their going to walk their pets through the salty parking lot anyway
  7. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

    The most common, and often sole ingredient in ice melters labeled “Pet Safe,” is Urea (sometimes listed as Carbonyl Diamide or Carbamide Resin). Urea is a bio-degradable chemical that is most commonly used in fertilizers. Although Urea won’t harm your pet’s paws, it also won’t melt your ice. An over application of Urea, which is inevitable as you struggle to melt ice with it, can have damaging effects to the surrounding vegetation and contamination to water runoff. Also the price per pound of Urea makes it a very expensive and highly impractical ice melter. If that is how you want to battle ice, a bag of sand or gravel will do the same thing and be a lot cheaper. However it most likely won’t have a cute picture of a dog on the label.
  8. JohnnyRoyale

    JohnnyRoyale 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,935

    A bag of gravel? I'd pay to see someone try to get away with that.
  9. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    cal, mag, sodium will all burn.
    There all corrosive .
    There reaction with ice is the same, It gets colder as it melts the ice..

    melt it..
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  10. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

    I would too, that'd be great, that was the suggestion on some website
  11. redman6565

    redman6565 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,411

    Where do you purchase "Magic Salt"?

    Someone mentioned something about "Green Fire"...any of you guys heard of this? It's like 60.00 per 50# bag, that sounds rediculous
  12. The MAG Man

    The MAG Man Junior Member
    Messages: 26

    There's a lot of information in this thread that is factually incorrect. Not looking to start a fight here but salt is a problem for paws. Magic Salt is salt and it is still a problem for most barefoot animals. The issue is not exothermic reactions (heat on dilution), it is a chemical burn from the products. Salt, and calcium dry out pads and will cause cracking and the old expression about "rubbing salt in a wound" applies. Some deicers are much more toxic than others which is potentially problematic with licking paws clean. Check the toxicity of the deicer by consulting OSHA's TOSCA registry.

    There are pet safe products right under your nose but you're not allowed to mention them unless you are a sponsor of this site.
  13. merrimacmill

    merrimacmill PlowSite.com Addict
    from MA
    Messages: 1,823

    You might want to look into Enviromelt. I bought a pallet last season and it was pretty good. I believe it uses a CMA mixture. It claims its "safe" to pets. I'm not sure if it is or not, but I'll just assume it is. Dogs come in and out of our building a lot, and we have never had a problem before. I can't seem to find anything online about it, but if you want me to get the companies number off the side of a bag, then let me know and I can do that for ya.
  14. SnowMelt2006

    SnowMelt2006 Member
    Messages: 68

    Safe Paw is gylcol coated urea.

    Environmelt is rock salt with a minute % of CMA....less than 1%.

    Magic Salt is..............well, salt.

    One thing we all learn, is that there is "no truth in labeling/advertising" concerning deicers.

    Put a FAA certificate behind the product and I will sit up and listen.

    Well put MAG Man.
  15. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    An exothermic reaction is a chemical reaction accompanied by the release of heat. In other words, the energy needed for the reaction to occur is less than the total energy released. As a result of this, the extra energy is released, usually in the form of heat.

    When you add these chemicals with ice or snow the reaction does not cause heat.
    Not a exothermic reaction

    Endothermic reactions are usually not a great safety hazard. However, because the reaction draws heat from its surroundings, the reaction container may become cold and cause condensation or ice to form. This can be a safety hazard if the materials involved react with water.

    Try this simple test if you don't believe me,
    Get a glass of ice and put a thermometer in it then read the temp.
    Then add your favorite ice melt and watch the temp drop as the ice melts.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2008
  16. linycctitan

    linycctitan Senior Member
    Messages: 588

    I have been using Magic Salt for 2 seasons (this will be my 3rd) on my resi's, as well as my own driveway. They claim to be "pet freindly" and my dog, nor either of my uncles (5 dogs total) ever show any signs of discomfort, nor have any of my customers had any issues. This was not the case a few years prior. Yes, it is salt but it's treated salt which changes the chemical makeup (so I am told, I am by no means a scientist!!).
  17. redman6565

    redman6565 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,411

    ya if you could that would be great.
  18. KINNCO

    KINNCO Senior Member
    Messages: 256

    Someday.. these stores will be smart enough to install thermal heating in the walks.
  19. draffinc

    draffinc Member
    Messages: 33

    Not trying to start an issue either , however i beg to differ on the magic salt. We have had great results with it and (actually use it on several animal hospitals) compared to the traditional methods.Our clients (vets) have noticed a reduction in burning of the paws on their "patients" who are also using the magic on their own (home) walkways. I agree with your analysis that using regular salt and calcium chloride can cause drying out the pads and irritation due too the animal continually licking the pads to get some relief and causing further and repeated irritation. this has been traditionally the problem. So far we have had good results with the magic. When we use the liquid straight before the storms(pre treatment) we even reduce the amount that needs to be put down after. Sort of a one two punch..:)