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Do it, or pass it.

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by SteveJ, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. SteveJ

    SteveJ Senior Member
    Messages: 141

    Allright guys,

    I got a doozie here. It's a friends lot. Remember I said friend. It's a place to eat, and I eat there with my wife at least once a week. Sometimes 7 times a month. He wants to barter with me for the plowing. Now, I don't mind bartering the plowing, but now we're talking salting.

    I mentioned to him for him to buy bagged and leave it ina shed at the restaurant. He said the it doesn't sound like a bad idea, but he has nothing to pick it up with. I told him I'd do that for him.

    Ok, now the question, usually when we eat there, the bill is about $45-60 bucks per dinner. Yeah, I like my :drinkup: I usually stay away from commercial accts and stick with res drives, but this lot is so small it looks like a good thing. I won't be doing it for the money, as it probably would never pan out and I'd be eating there for a year.

    I'd appreciate what some of you think, since he has done me a lot of favors in the past, and I feel it's time for a bit of "give back". I'm just lost on what to charge since he's a friend, and I want to keep it that way.

    Here is a sketch of the lot. The shaded areas need salt. The darker shaded blue needs heavier salt. The red is where I can stack it.

    Thanks for your input.


  2. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    Before you talk about price, there is something else to consider - insurance and taxes. Especially if you are going to it on a regular basis. If there is a slip and fall or other claim, your friend is not going to be able to protect you - his insurance company will have the say. You'll need to add commercial property to your policy. Now, if you are audited and there is any kind of evidence that you plow this site (and this can be anything; like your friend deducting the cost of the meal as a business expense) and it is not claimed as income (barter in kind), you have just committed "tax evasion". "Past favors" repayment is not a defense.
  3. mercer_me

    mercer_me PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,371

    You don't need insurance if it's your freind. I would charge him $50 a storm.
  4. iceyman

    iceyman 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,925

    was that a serious statement........ cuz i kno alot of people that were friends until one of them had to sue the other.....and if you dont have insurance youll be screwed
  5. mercer_me

    mercer_me PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,371

    I don't no anybody with insurance. And some of the people I now plow 30+ driveways comercialy.
  6. iceyman

    iceyman 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,925

    wow you must live in a totally different era then me.... one shrub gets taken out and they want your info round here.... do you/you friend tell your customers that you have insurance?
  7. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,237

    Are you serious?

    Do you own a company?

    Have you subcontracted for anyone?

    This has just about got to take the cake on your ignorant comments. You've been here for less than 2 months and pass yourself off as an expert, which you are far from as near as I can tell.

    You sure as heck do need insurance, because it is a place of business with people walking in and out who might slip, or he might hit someone or their car and he needs to be covered for this liability, unless he's dumber than you.

    Stick with your Toyo and Snowbear, sit back and learn.
  8. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    I don't know where to even start. Do not tell anyone they don't need insurance for plowing snow. If you're uninsured, keep it to yourself.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2008
  9. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,237

    Oh come on Mick, this is the guy that was looking into a Snowbear for commercial use.

    Plus, he just was asking the question about the Snowbear less than 2 months ago. This makes him an expert that cannot be questioned.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2008
  10. SteveJ

    SteveJ Senior Member
    Messages: 141


    Thanks for the reply.

    I pay 2000+ a year for my residential plow insurance. Thats why I was thinking to maybe just plow him, let him get a push behind salter and let one of their dishwashers salt it.
    I dunno, it sounds like good eats, but the DW is telling me to forget it.

    As for 50 bucks, I'd rather pay for dinner. That's not worth backing the truck out of the garage. I'd use at least 20 in gas running to him and plowing and back to where I do my drives.

    Any other ideas?

    Thanks guys :drinkup:

  11. Superior L & L

    Superior L & L PlowSite Veteran
    from MI
    Messages: 3,041

    $65.00 per push and $10 per bag spread or about 2 hangovers :drinkup:
  12. ducatirider944

    ducatirider944 Senior Member
    from Iowa
    Messages: 469

    I know where to start, when I have a slip and fall with no insurance I will just have my attorney call mercer_me and he can get sued for telling me I don't need insurance. Yeah, sounds stupid as hell and it is, but you would be shocked at what a lawyer will sue for, and how I can just play like I didn't know better. The law is very good at protecting stupid people, that is what laws are for.:D
  13. Longae29

    Longae29 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,953

  14. bribrius

    bribrius PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,609

    I realize you guys arent from this area but i understand why mercer thinks that way.
    Im willing to say out of everyone that plows snow in maine maybe 1% has the insurance for it.
    Maine just thinks of snow as a normal occurence and plowing as something you do, no different from when you help the neighbor mow his lawn because his lawnmower broke.
    It isn't considered a big deal here. In fact when i first found plowsite i was amazed they actually had a website for plowing. Kind of like creating a website for how to check you mailbox. Now of course i see snow a little different and the deicers, efficiency, contract language, legal aspect etc. etc.
    Just because mainers dont consider snow and ice a big deal, that isnt to say the people that move up here won't or their lawyers won't so i can't really side with mercer on this. But i do understand why he thinks that way. Most of Maine does.
  15. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,237

    I know what you're saying bri, because the people around us understand winter for the most part as well. My area is not very litigious, yet.

    But what the expert from Maine forgets is that he's telling a guy from NY that he doesn't need insurance. Sort of like someone in Maine telling someone in Florida they don't need sunscreen.
  16. SteveJ

    SteveJ Senior Member
    Messages: 141

    I guess I'll stick to paying for dinner.... better off.
  17. baddboygeorge

    baddboygeorge Senior Member
    Messages: 237

    ya like him??

    never mix friends an business , an never barter with em unless ya dont really give 2 shitz about him!
  18. mercer_me

    mercer_me PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,371

    Ok I guess I understand it's so much simpler in Maine than it is in NY. I wan't to make it clear that if I had to worry about getting sewed I would get insurance to.
  19. hydro_37

    hydro_37 PlowSite Veteran
    from iowa
    Messages: 3,790

    I would pass on it. Working for friends can lead to bad feelings and losing a good friend. I would set it up as a paying account and pay for your meals. Then you both know what to pay at the end of the month. JMO

    Mercer....you have NO reason to tell people to plow with no insurance unless your a complete moron.
  20. mercer_me

    mercer_me PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,371

    Mercer....you have NO reason to tell people to plow with no insurance[/QUOTE]

    Sory but were I live I don't have to wory about getting sewed.:D