[Mark Oomkes]

Looks like the concrete monkey gets around...

 

[Hydromaster]

I blame the Irrigation

 

[Mark Oomkes]

I blame the Irrigation

Pretty sure the pic is from Suck Bent.

 

[plow4beer]

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your reply below. This is clearly turning into a finger pointing exercise involving the owner. I will replace the concrete, because it is the right thing to do. I'm fairly confident it was not our issue, all our testing and reports have been approved by a third party testing agency, along with Cascade township inspections. I'm am however confident the person from your team clearing snow was not competent for the task. I would recommend using a shovel or snowblower in the future to avoid future damage. It appears that your equipment(operator) has failed your team on this account, I don't think you can argue that.

If your team is not willing to pay for or participate in fixing the concrete, that is up to you, but I will make sure it's fixed because it is the right thing to do.

Have a good day Mark!

…………….And this should be all thats in your replay to his email………….

 

[Mark Oomkes]

View attachment 240556
…………….And this should be all thats in your replay to his email………….

While that would be hilarious, it won't be as much fun as telling him that not only are my questions/concerns based on my history but also a few concrete experts.

 

[plow4beer]

my questions/concerns based on my history but also a few concrete experts.

Ha….always knew you were a sucker

 

[TwiceStroked]

Looks like the concrete monkey gets around...

View attachment 240520

Nice Voids next failure location 4 U 2 B blamed 4.
Now onto the conduits.....
And can I get their card so I can give 2 the neighbors that I don't talk 2 ?

 

[cwren2472]

It appears that your equipment(operator) has failed your team on this account, I don't think you can argue that.

So, he's saying its "user error"?

Huh. Shocking.

 

[Kinport]

Sorry to hijack Oo, just seemed appropriate to ask in this thread

here’s a few pics from a backyard we redid last summer:
In progress:

almost done

Turned out pretty good. In addition to the rock walls, steps, and grading/sod, I also poured 8-9 yards of concrete patio and walkway under the deck. Customer sent me these pics today

concrete got the same prep we do for every pour, 4”(or more)of 3/4” state spec road base that gets graded to within 3/8” and then wetted and compacted with a vibratory plate. Mud was a 6 bag mix poured at about a 5 slump with air and a poly water reducer. I’d love to blame it on the batch but I poured it in 2-3 pours over a couple days so I don’t think they were all bad. I personally poured the whole thing so I feel confident there were no major mistakes made during the pour (knowingly, at least) that would compromise strength. The common denominator seems to be they all cracked off the sonotubes for the deck. I’ve seen pads cracks on inside 45 angles, but does anyone know if it’s common to crack on a radius like that? More importantly, anyone have any tricks for pouring around the sonos so it won’t crack?

customer loves me but is a major PITA and is not easy to please. I already know telling him that all concrete cracks will not be good enough, and have accepted I’m gonna have to go cut those sections out and replace. Just wanting to get it right next time. Any thoughts?
(@jomama45 @plow4beer any other concrete guys out there.)

 

[Mark Oomkes]

Sorry to hijack Oo, just seemed appropriate to ask in this thread

As someone who in 22 years has NEVER hijacked a thread, I object strenuously.

 

[the Suburbanite]

Sorry to hijack Oo, just seemed appropriate to ask in this thread

here’s a few pics from a backyard we redid last summer:
In progress: View attachment 252301

almost done View attachment 252302

Turned out pretty good. In addition to the rock walls, steps, and grading/sod, I also poured 8-9 yards of concrete patio and walkway under the deck. Customer sent me these pics today
View attachment 252303 View attachment 252304 View attachment 252305

concrete got the same prep we do for every pour, 4”(or more)of 3/4” state spec road base that gets graded to within 3/8” and then wetted and compacted with a vibratory plate. Mud was a 6 bag mix poured at about a 5 slump with air and a poly water reducer. I’d love to blame it on the batch but I poured it in 2-3 pours over a couple days so I don’t think they were all bad. I personally poured the whole thing so I feel confident there were no major mistakes made during the pour (knowingly, at least) that would compromise strength. The common denominator seems to be they all cracked off the sonotubes for the deck. I’ve seen pads cracks on inside 45 angles, but does anyone know if it’s common to crack on a radius like that? More importantly, anyone have any tricks for pouring around the sonos so it won’t crack?

customer loves me but is a major PITA and is not easy to please. I already know telling him that all concrete cracks will not be good enough, and have accepted I’m gonna have to go cut those sections out and replace. Just wanting to get it right next time. Any thoughts?
(@jomama45 @plow4beer any other concrete guys out there.)

Bummer, for sure. Looks like a nice project, the property looks great. I have no concrete wisdom to share. But... I want to say: As a contractor myself (until recently, I'm thinking) it is refreshing to see someone willing to accept responsibility for an issue (whether or not your work is at fault,) being prepared to address it to maintain a relationship with an already difficult client, and come in looking for advice in order to improve the finished product (either for the repair, or for down the road on the next one.)

Good luck getting this taken care of. I hope it's as easy and painless as possible.

 

[Hydromaster]

Everything Breaks - Warranties, Protection Plans, Coverage

Everything Breaks provides Extended Warranty & Protection Plans for the electronic devices like Smartphones, Tablets, E-readers, Laptops, Appliances & Television.

www.everythingbreaks.com

I blame the concrete.
Ps was MarkO near it

 

[BUFF]

Sorry to hijack Oo, just seemed appropriate to ask in this thread

here’s a few pics from a backyard we redid last summer:
In progress: View attachment 252301

almost done View attachment 252302

Turned out pretty good. In addition to the rock walls, steps, and grading/sod, I also poured 8-9 yards of concrete patio and walkway under the deck. Customer sent me these pics today
View attachment 252303 View attachment 252304 View attachment 252305

concrete got the same prep we do for every pour, 4”(or more)of 3/4” state spec road base that gets graded to within 3/8” and then wetted and compacted with a vibratory plate. Mud was a 6 bag mix poured at about a 5 slump with air and a poly water reducer. I’d love to blame it on the batch but I poured it in 2-3 pours over a couple days so I don’t think they were all bad. I personally poured the whole thing so I feel confident there were no major mistakes made during the pour (knowingly, at least) that would compromise strength. The common denominator seems to be they all cracked off the sonotubes for the deck. I’ve seen pads cracks on inside 45 angles, but does anyone know if it’s common to crack on a radius like that? More importantly, anyone have any tricks for pouring around the sonos so it won’t crack?

customer loves me but is a major PITA and is not easy to please. I already know telling him that all concrete cracks will not be good enough, and have accepted I’m gonna have to go cut those sections out and replace. Just wanting to get it right next time. Any thoughts?
(@jomama45 @plow4beer any other concrete guys out there.)

I'm no seameant slinger but I do occasionally stay at an Holiday Inn Express......
When the pad in my shop was poured the contractor used Sonotubes as a form to leave a gap around the poles which were in sonotubes and then they put felt in the gap to keep crap oot.
My guess is in your case the sonotubes created a stress riser around the sonotubes when the pad was shifting due to seasonal weather changes and cracked the seameant

 

[EWSplow]

Sorry to hijack Oo, just seemed appropriate to ask in this thread

here’s a few pics from a backyard we redid last summer:
In progress: View attachment 252301

almost done View attachment 252302

Turned out pretty good. In addition to the rock walls, steps, and grading/sod, I also poured 8-9 yards of concrete patio and walkway under the deck. Customer sent me these pics today
View attachment 252303 View attachment 252304 View attachment 252305

concrete got the same prep we do for every pour, 4”(or more)of 3/4” state spec road base that gets graded to within 3/8” and then wetted and compacted with a vibratory plate. Mud was a 6 bag mix poured at about a 5 slump with air and a poly water reducer. I’d love to blame it on the batch but I poured it in 2-3 pours over a couple days so I don’t think they were all bad. I personally poured the whole thing so I feel confident there were no major mistakes made during the pour (knowingly, at least) that would compromise strength. The common denominator seems to be they all cracked off the sonotubes for the deck. I’ve seen pads cracks on inside 45 angles, but does anyone know if it’s common to crack on a radius like that? More importantly, anyone have any tricks for pouring around the sonos so it won’t crack?

customer loves me but is a major PITA and is not easy to please. I already know telling him that all concrete cracks will not be good enough, and have accepted I’m gonna have to go cut those sections out and replace. Just wanting to get it right next time. Any thoughts?
(@jomama45 @plow4beer any other concrete guys out there.)

I think a joint from the pier out to the corner may have helped.

 

[jomama45]

Sorry to hijack Oo, just seemed appropriate to ask in this thread

here’s a few pics from a backyard we redid last summer:
In progress: View attachment 252301

almost done View attachment 252302

Turned out pretty good. In addition to the rock walls, steps, and grading/sod, I also poured 8-9 yards of concrete patio and walkway under the deck. Customer sent me these pics today
View attachment 252303 View attachment 252304 View attachment 252305

concrete got the same prep we do for every pour, 4”(or more)of 3/4” state spec road base that gets graded to within 3/8” and then wetted and compacted with a vibratory plate. Mud was a 6 bag mix poured at about a 5 slump with air and a poly water reducer. I’d love to blame it on the batch but I poured it in 2-3 pours over a couple days so I don’t think they were all bad. I personally poured the whole thing so I feel confident there were no major mistakes made during the pour (knowingly, at least) that would compromise strength. The common denominator seems to be they all cracked off the sonotubes for the deck. I’ve seen pads cracks on inside 45 angles, but does anyone know if it’s common to crack on a radius like that? More importantly, anyone have any tricks for pouring around the sonos so it won’t crack?

customer loves me but is a major PITA and is not easy to please. I already know telling him that all concrete cracks will not be good enough, and have accepted I’m gonna have to go cut those sections out and replace. Just wanting to get it right next time. Any thoughts?
(@jomama45 @plow4beer any other concrete guys out there.)

I highly doubt it's a concrete or base issue looking at the pictures, and to be completely honest, I'd expect to see most of those cracks the way it's jointed (sorry for the tough love).

I would start by wrapping every sono tube with 1/2" "Deck-o-Foam" or similar expansion material that has a lot of cushion. A few layers of sill sealer with duct tape will suffice also. Make sure the expansion goes all the way down to the bottom of the concrete slab. The way it is now, the sono tubes are rough enough that they don't allow the slab to move up or down due to frost, or laterally as the concrete was shrinking.

I always joint to the center of every sono tube, both ways. Work your joints off of the sono tubes and every inside corner, and fill in any other joints after that. Sometimes this means a lot more joints than the homeowner may want to see, but with control joints, they are function first, aesthetics second. One of my motto's is "It's far easier for me to explain why I put so many joints in rather than try to justify why there's one random crack in the slab". Often times, sawing the joints in a job like this makes the joints less obvious due to their thinner profile. Sometimes, we use a combination of tooled and swan joints, as well.

Try to avoid square drains/catch basins (crocks/baskets/etc....) all together. Round drains (I like the 8" Sioux Chief Fat Max drains personally) are much more forgiving, but in your case with the rain chain drain, you'd still have to cut an intersecting joint to the drain. If you're dead-set on using the square, at least turn it on an angle so the control joint lines up with 2 corners of the drain.

If you get inside corners that you have a sense may want to crack outside of joint, you can help keep the crack in the joint by working a margin/pointing trowel into the joint when it's still wet, as deep as possible. Sawing the joint down deep the next morning will help do the same thing, assuming it already hasn't cracked. Throwing a few extra rebar inside the corner at a 45 degree angle helps keep the crack tight if it were to form as well.


Expansion joint: DECK-O-FOAM - Expansion Joint Filler - W. R. Meadows

Drain: Drainage | Commercial Drainage | On-Grade Drains | Standard On-Grade Drains | FatMax™ | FatMax™ Large-Capacity Floor Drain Sch. 40 Hub

 

[Kinport]

I'm no seameant slinger but I do occasionally stay at an Holiday Inn Express......
When the pad in my shop was poured the contractor used Sonotubes as a form to leave a gap around the poles which were in sonotubes and then they put felt in the gap to keep crap oot.
My guess is in your case the sonotubes created a stress riser around the sonotubes when the pad was shifting due to seasonal weather changes and cracked the seameant

That makes perfect sense

sorry for the tough love).

Don’t be, it’s much appreciated, as is the detailed response. My background is not in concrete(obviously). I do maybe 75-100 yards a year for projects we are already doing dirt work on, and a lot of what I know is self taught. I appreciate an expert sharing info freely.

I think you and @BUFF nailed it. Slab Movement, my guess is mostly shrinkage, was inhibited by the sonotubes, which in turn created stress in the pad and caused it to crack. I’ll rip that section out and use some type of expansion material to create 1/2” of space between to slab and sonos so they’re completely isolated. Thanks for everyone’s help and suggestions.

 

[Philbilly2]

3 rules of concrete

It is gunna get hard
It is gunna crack
And no one is gunna steal it

 

[plow4beer]

Sorry to hijack Oo, just seemed appropriate to ask in this thread

here’s a few pics from a backyard we redid last summer:
In progress: View attachment 252301

almost done View attachment 252302

Turned out pretty good. In addition to the rock walls, steps, and grading/sod, I also poured 8-9 yards of concrete patio and walkway under the deck. Customer sent me these pics today
View attachment 252303 View attachment 252304 View attachment 252305

concrete got the same prep we do for every pour, 4”(or more)of 3/4” state spec road base that gets graded to within 3/8” and then wetted and compacted with a vibratory plate. Mud was a 6 bag mix poured at about a 5 slump with air and a poly water reducer. I’d love to blame it on the batch but I poured it in 2-3 pours over a couple days so I don’t think they were all bad. I personally poured the whole thing so I feel confident there were no major mistakes made during the pour (knowingly, at least) that would compromise strength. The common denominator seems to be they all cracked off the sonotubes for the deck. I’ve seen pads cracks on inside 45 angles, but does anyone know if it’s common to crack on a radius like that? More importantly, anyone have any tricks for pouring around the sonos so it won’t crack?

customer loves me but is a major PITA and is not easy to please. I already know telling him that all concrete cracks will not be good enough, and have accepted I’m gonna have to go cut those sections out and replace. Just wanting to get it right next time. Any thoughts?
(@jomama45 @plow4beer any other concrete guys out there.)

Sorry for the delayed response, but JOE Mama already posted a long winded version of what I would’ve…..always expansion joint between concrete (patio/sidewalk in this case) that doesn’t have footings, from concrete (sonotubes/foundations/etc) that does.