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Please post your reply about recommending sidewalk contractors who suggest only using shovels and walk behinds on their cured concrete due to its fragility....good to see hes stepping up and fixing it. I wil say this, in the years that I have done commercial properties, I have seen stuff happen that no one thinks of in the moment. A septic truck backing over a sidewalk to get out back to the septic tank, well service,drillers, a furnace duct cleaner with a heavy truck backing up to the front door. Delivery/moving trucks same, its possible there are others. You're just the scapegoat because you're who they see.
 

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So on Friday I sent a nice email to everyone on the email that was forwarded to me, once again outlining my concerns with the claims being made; the history of these pieces of equipment and why it was unlikely that they were the cause of the cracks.

I got a not so nice email from the GC in reply.

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your reply below. This is clearly turning into a finger pointing exercise involving the owner. I will replace the concrete, because it is the right thing to do. I'm fairly confident it was not our issue, all our testing and reports have been approved by a third party testing agency, along with Cascade township inspections. I'm am however confident the person from your team clearing snow was not competent for the task. I would recommend using a shovel or snowblower in the future to avoid future damage. It appears that your equipment(operator) has failed your team on this account, I don't think you can argue that.

If your team is not willing to pay for or participate in fixing the concrete, that is up to you, but I will make sure it's fixed because it is the right thing to do.

Have a good day Mark!


I was flat out amazed, still am by this reply. Other than the testing, nothing else was addressed. I also like how he is trying to guilt me into paying for part of it.
He's playing a little guilt game with you to get you to share in the expenses. When you think about it, he's admitting guilt but trying to share it with you.
I'd ask to be there when the concrete is being removed to determine weather you have any liability at all. Maybe you can give your flatwork guy a few bucks to join you.
He mentioned testing. What type and where are the results?
BTW, I told you that 1st response you got was probably from the GC.
 

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He's playing a little guilt game with you to get you to share in the expenses. When you think about it, he's admitting guilt but trying to share it with you.
I'd ask to be there when the concrete is being removed to determine weather you have any liability at all. Maybe you can give your flatwork guy a few bucks to join you.
He mentioned testing. What type and where are the results?
BTW, I told you that 1st response you got was probably from the GC.
I agree 100%
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
He's playing a little guilt game with you to get you to share in the expenses. When you think about it, he's admitting guilt but trying to share it with you.
I'd ask to be there when the concrete is being removed to determine weather you have any liability at all. Maybe you can give your flatwork guy a few bucks to join you.
He mentioned testing. What type and where are the results?
BTW, I told you that 1st response you got was probably from the GC.
Yes

Yes

Possibly, not sure it's worth my time. Customer said he wants to meet with me before the season starts next winter. This tells me they understand the GC and sub is full of it and understand it is not the result of our equipment or operators.

LOL...c'mon man...it was tested and approved by the inspectors. Not sure I've seen an inspector present on a sidewalk install. He didn't address 99% of my concerns/questions, only the testing one.

Yes and no, first reply was from someone at the concrete sub for the GC. I would have loved to seen the flurry of emails going back and forth Friday afternoon. My email went out at 1:30 PM. This email came in at 8:21 AM yesterday morning.

Also curious what sections are going to be replaced? In reality, the one with the large cracks is the only one that needs to be replaced. The others are just hairline.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
How I'd like to start my reply is something along these lines:

Thanks for your reply and if I ever need a building built, it won't be your company building it.

CFO says I need to use people skills.
 

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How I'd like to start my reply is something along these lines:

Thanks for your reply and if I ever need a building built, it won't be your company building it.

CFO says I need to use people skills.
That's why you have two emails ready, one on the screen for her to proof read... Then one saved draft saying what you really mean that actually gets sent...
 

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Well, we only have two types of concrete here. One is concrete with cracks in it, and the other is concrete that hasn't cracked yet. I have seen a lot of cracks in my lifetime and sometimes you just don't know why the crack God decided to wave his magic wand. My thought is that it really isn't a structural defect or a operator failure but rather a quick freeze before the base had a time to drain away the base. If it was a operator/machine failure you would seen wheel marks in the mulch/sod, the crack would be uneven, and you would seen scuffs from tire treads. Of course my observations are based on your pictures presented here.
My first impression is that is a really "good" customer. It seems to be a multi-year contract and they pay their bills in time The fact that they were soliciting your opinion is a good sign. The question is not what caused the problem, but what can we do to prevent this problem again. Fine, the customer thinks it is a machine problem, okay it is a shovel and broom facility only. The present contract has to amended to include those costs and performance standards. Here is your new three year contract and we will fix the existing problem free. All you have to do is amortized the cost of the repair and additional labor into another 3 year contract. We used to photo sidewalk inspection before the start of a season. Also keep in mind that it just isn't your machine on a sidewalk. I have seen many facility ATV overloaded delivering cleaning supplies to remote staircases.
 

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It’s a tough situation but I would want to be there when demo’s. My guess is he won’t let be there or tell you when he does it
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
A few comments from our retired concrete expert.

First off...The picture by the doorwall...No control joints anywhere...Also...No expansion joint or expansion paper up by the house..it has a poor broom finish on it which leads me to believe that the concrete has minimal trolling to cure the surface...Third...I guarantee he sub base is ****...Concrete cracks...It's inevitable...But if you have few or no control joints ..That's what your gonna get

Looks like a crappy job to me...The slabs are poorly finished and need more control joints

Dig up the edge in a few places and see how thick the concrete is...The crack down the center of that one slab is definitely a sub base failure


Seems to be a recurring theme no matter who I talk to.

I'll send a nice reply at some point, but I do have other things to do.
 

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So I’m no concrete guy, but my self poured and poorly finished 20x20 fiber mesh 4” slab under my salt pile with the 10x20 apron shows zero cracks after its first winter with a 8k lb Gehl driving on it all winter, not to mention all the loaded trucks driving on and off the edges, plows scraping it, buckets, etc.

Perhaps point out to the GC he should have speced at least 3,500 PSI concrete?
 

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They need to cancel the hover round drag races they were holding there on Friday nights.
Not for nothing but, they rolled the dice cutting corners and lost.
I had sw and dway apron done, told my guy I needed a year warranty, he said "I'll give U 5" that was 2004, in upstate NY, had morons park on it since its paved and Im in liberal .... whats theirs is theirs and whats mine is theirs, had city plows bang it since granite curbs are subterranean and my 7400+# 350 plow it ZERO CRACKS.
All about Prep and
American Craftsman Pride..
 

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I would recommend using a shovel or snowblower in the future to avoid future damage. It appears that your equipment(operator) has failed your team on this account, I don't think you can argue that.
He clearly doesn't know who he's dealing with, because everyone knows that you can argue about ANYTHING!

If he's offering suggestions on how to do your job, perhaps you should reply that the concrete sub should probably tear the slabs out with a pick and sledge hammer to avoid doing any damage to the adjacent landscape.............
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
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So on Friday I sent a nice email to everyone on the email that was forwarded to me, once again outlining my concerns with the claims being made; the history of these pieces of equipment and why it was unlikely that they were the cause of the cracks.

I got a not so nice email from the GC in reply.

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your reply below. This is clearly turning into a finger pointing exercise involving the owner. I will replace the concrete, because it is the right thing to do. I'm fairly confident it was not our issue, all our testing and reports have been approved by a third party testing agency, along with Cascade township inspections. I'm am however confident the person from your team clearing snow was not competent for the task. I would recommend using a shovel or snowblower in the future to avoid future damage. It appears that your equipment(operator) has failed your team on this account, I don't think you can argue that.

If your team is not willing to pay for or participate in fixing the concrete, that is up to you, but I will make sure it's fixed because it is the right thing to do.

Have a good day Mark!


I was flat out amazed, still am by this reply. Other than the testing, nothing else was addressed. I also like how he is trying to guilt me into paying for part of it.
Should have Dave Snyder reply to him.....
 
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