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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I already posted pics in the Rant thread. I can post them up again here.

The customer spoke with whom I am assuming installed the concrete. They are a large company which has been around for quite some time and 9 locations around the country. I realize this doesn't mean their work is perfect...it might even be that they it makes it more likely they screwed up.

Here is what their guy said:

Thank you for your time earlier today along with sending over these pictures. Based on the equipment models along with what we saw today onsite I have the following comments.

The overall weight of the machines do not seem to be a concern as long as the units are running with all four tires on the walk. The areas with the most damage seem to be adjacent to areas where the landscape has also seen traffic. So if these units were rolling off of the edges when removing snow that could be an event that damages the walks. This would especially pertain to areas that do not have an integral turndown edge like the west side of the building. Continued traffic and turning of equipment on the walks can also cause damage.

It should be noted that the increased freeze thaw cycle that occurs when using de-icing materials also has an impact on surface finishes along with joint deterioration.

If you have a compacted sub base and concrete that meets design strength most visible cracks we see are noticed within the first few weeks of the placement. With that being said it appears the majority of the cracking you are noticing seems to be caused by something other than concrete deficiencies.

This email is simply conveying our thoughts based on what we saw today and if you have any further questions please contact me.


@plow4beer @jomama45 thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Road surface Asphalt Floor Flooring Composite material


Automotive tire Sleeve Road surface Grey Asphalt


Wood Road surface Grey Floor Asphalt

Road surface Asphalt Grey Rectangle Composite material
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes I did....and a current HD Polish sausage shopper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
As I said in the rant, if it was the weight of the equipment, we would be having these issues all over. And we have done new (less than a year old) concrete with both of our machines without issues. We're running tractors on other walks, no problems.

Thousands of SSV's out there. Hundreds if not thousands of SteelGreens/Zplows out there. Thousands of Ventracs and Steiners out there.

I'm leaning towards a piss poor base and or compaction of the base. Could be a poor batch, at some point I'll ask the concrete monkey where the seament came from.

I like how he threw in the de-icing/freeze-thaw cycles.
 

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Sounds like you're rollin with baby Barney salt loads then...
It was a international 4700 with an under tailgate spreader. It's the same truck at the same location that he run into the very nice entrance overhang because he had the box up. He thought the building was coming down on him.
 

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As I said in the rant, if it was the weight of the equipment, we would be having these issues all over. And we have done new (less than a year old) concrete with both of our machines without issues. We're running tractors on other walks, no problems.

Thousands of SSV's out there. Hundreds if not thousands of SteelGreens/Zplows out there. Thousands of Ventracs and Steiners out there.

I'm leaning towards a piss poor base and or compaction of the base. Could be a poor batch, at some point I'll ask the concrete monkey where the seament came from.

I like how he threw in the de-icing/freeze-thaw cycles.
There are places that you can get concrete tested but you would have to saw cut a chunk out.
 

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As I said in the rant, if it was the weight of the equipment, we would be having these issues all over. And we have done new (less than a year old) concrete with both of our machines without issues. We're running tractors on other walks, no problems.

Thousands of SSV's out there. Hundreds if not thousands of SteelGreens/Zplows out there. Thousands of Ventracs and Steiners out there.

I'm leaning towards a piss poor base and or compaction of the base. Could be a poor batch, at some point I'll ask the concrete monkey where the seament came from.

I like how he threw in the de-icing/freeze-thaw cycles.
Is your salt bin cracking?
That sees way more weight and deicer than your sidewalk machine put down…
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Is your salt bin cracking?
That sees way more weight and deicer than your sidewalk machine put down…
Salt bin is at least 8" thick with heavy mesh.

No freeze/thaw cycles either...it's always thawed. (not really, it isn't full all the time)
 

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So I already posted pics in the Rant thread. I can post them up again here.

The customer spoke with whom I am assuming installed the concrete. They are a large company which has been around for quite some time and 9 locations around the country. I realize this doesn't mean their work is perfect...it might even be that they it makes it more likely they screwed up.

Here is what their guy said:

Thank you for your time earlier today along with sending over these pictures. Based on the equipment models along with what we saw today onsite I have the following comments.

The overall weight of the machines do not seem to be a concern as long as the units are running with all four tires on the walk. The areas with the most damage seem to be adjacent to areas where the landscape has also seen traffic. So if these units were rolling off of the edges when removing snow that could be an event that damages the walks. This would especially pertain to areas that do not have an integral turndown edge like the west side of the building. Continued traffic and turning of equipment on the walks can also cause damage.

It should be noted that the increased freeze thaw cycle that occurs when using de-icing materials also has an impact on surface finishes along with joint deterioration.

If you have a compacted sub base and concrete that meets design strength most visible cracks we see are noticed within the first few weeks of the placement. With that being said it appears the majority of the cracking you are noticing seems to be caused by something other than concrete deficiencies.

This email is simply conveying our thoughts based on what we saw today and if you have any further questions please contact me.


@plow4beer @jomama45 thoughts?
This sounds more like an engineer, or perhaps the GC who built it.
Did they take any core samples when it was built? Any slump tests?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm gathering info...I'll add that to the list.
 

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Maybe you can make a deal with them. Cut out a small section where its cracked. If everything appears to be up to par, you pay to replace that section. If it isn't you wash your hands of it.
Kinda rolling the dice, but I'm guessing they'll fall in your favor.
Another possibility, you hire an unbiased engineer. If he says you didn't cause the damage, they pay his fee.
If it comes down to a lawsuit, your liability insurance will be handling it and other than supplying info and maybe a deposition, you're out of it.
 
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