1. Welcome to PlowSite. Notice a fresh look and new features? It’s now easier to share photos and videos, find popular topics fast, and enjoy expanded user profiles. If you have any questions, click HELP at the top or bottom of any page, or send an email to help@plowsite.com. We welcome your feedback.

    Dismiss Notice

Classification of Shovelers

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Shovelboy, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. Shovelboy

    Shovelboy Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    I am wondering how you folks deal with shovelers in terms of employee classification. Part time employees? 1099s?

    For those who are also running LCO's, do you take on a worker's buddy for extra help when a blizzard hits? How do you deal with these people?

    I have one guy who has worked 4 days in 3 months who believes he is my employee after helping out during emergencies.

    I've only been operating for 3 years, but I am not sure the best way of dealing with them.

    Any constructive suggestions would be appreciated!
  2. vis

    vis Senior Member
    from 4
    Messages: 324

    Easy way.....Cash.
  3. Shovelboy

    Shovelboy Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    I agree, cash is an easy way to do it.

    So what do I do if the guy puts in more than 60 hours at $10 cash?

    What would you do about that situation?
  4. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

  5. vis

    vis Senior Member
    from 4
    Messages: 324

    well, the way this year went....you would pay him 600 bucks....

    most of the time shovelers end up being friends of friends of friends...and some times their status isnt exactly...shall we say legal....

    cash is the best way...

    Shoveling walks is a big problem for us....we use about 25 guys per storm to shovel...
  6. vis

    vis Senior Member
    from 4
    Messages: 324

    or just classify them as "sub contractors" to answer your question.....

    But as a sub they should have their own insurance....
  7. Shovelboy

    Shovelboy Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    re: subcontractors

    I believe 1099 would be the traditional industry practice for it.

    But I am told if the guy is riding in your truck / uses your salt, spreader, shovels etc., that that is a fraudulent classification.

    Moreover, we now cannot even tell these guys what time the job needs to be started/finished etc. - and the guy would be allowed to do the work the way he wants (maybe the sub needs to be told not to spread salt up into the turf plot areas - but you can't tell him that.

    I'm really frustrated as this because I want to run legit. IC is the way this has always been handled due to the unpredictable nature of snow work, needing extra day labor, etc.

    I had a fella tell me to call a temp service, but those companies don't seem to have on-demand help that lines up with the unpredictable nature of the business.

    I am trying to find a solution to this as the guy is pushing a case that he is employed by my company. I don't stand to be hit very hard from his claim, except that I want to cover my behind in the future.
  8. grandview

    grandview PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,609

    Depending on your State you might get him as casual labor if you paid him under 600.00 for the year. So really you could of paid him 600 in 2010 and 600 in 2011. Sit him down and tell him he is not an employee and don't call him back.
  9. Shovelboy

    Shovelboy Junior Member
    Messages: 4


    I was overlooking the 2 different years aspect of that. $512.00 on 2011.

    Thanks, Grandview. You just saved me a hassle. Good lookin' out, I really appreciate the input!
  10. scottL

    scottL PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,613

    Shovelers .... Hate 'EM:gunsfiring:
    Government .... Hate 'EM:gunsfiring:

    Certain work types like snow shoveling is not only seasonal but it is random. Unlike like seasonal fruit pickers or seasonal grass clippers you do not have the guarantee that there will be snow on any regular basis. I do not believe the Gov/IRS understands this because they are the all knowing Gov/IRS. Bottom line it is about money .... and everyone knows if you have a snow plowing company your just rolling in the dough :yow!:

    Ok, there are many discussions about what makes an employee ( w2 ) or what makes a sub-contractor ( 1099 ). This year we said if your using our trucks you are a w2. If you use your truck your a w2 if you shovel then you have the option of W2 or Sub. This was done because they each have such different taxing needs. They do have to sign an acceptance of their choice and of course can change later if they wish.

    All are covered by workers comp and company insurance. I don't understand why but the insurance companies who are in bed with the politicians who set the rates know why.... it's about the money.

    Every time you send out shovelers you loose money.....That's the bottom line.