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Case 450 Fueling problem

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment' started by dieselboy01, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. dieselboy01

    dieselboy01 Senior Member
    Messages: 795

    I have an old Case 450 track loader I'm having an issue with. It will idle fine (most of the time) But once you start working it, it just dies, like it runs out of fuel. It takes a few minutes to restart, most time I have to spray a little either in it.

    I cleaned out the sediment bowl under the tank, replaced the spin on filter, blew out most of the fuel lines, drained about 4 gallons of diesel out of it. (had almost a quart of water in the bottom on the tank)

    I found a bad o ring on the T fitting on top of the fuel injection pump. I replaced that and it started and idled good. I had it idling for about half an hour today. Then I drove it around for good 15 min. Then it died again, a little either to start it and she drove for about 5 min then it died again. At this point the battery was to low to start it so it's charging now.

    While it was idling I sprayed either on the fuel lines to see if it was sucking air in anywhere and the rpms didn't change. Either the lines are sealed or that "test" did nothing.

    I'm out of ideas right now, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

    Here's a pic of the loader if it helps.
  2. dieselboy01

    dieselboy01 Senior Member
    Messages: 795

    I would also like to know if this is another filter behind the spin on filter. I removed the drain plug on the bottom. I'm not sure if it spins on or not. I'd like to know more about it before I start reefin on things.

  3. johnhenry1933

    johnhenry1933 Senior Member
    Messages: 256

    If you are certain you removed all of the bad fuel (and sludge at the bottom of the tank...and cleaned the screens) all that is left is the pump. Assuming the injector lines and injectors are good.
  4. dieselss

    dieselss PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,392

    Looks like another filter. See if any lines are going into and outta it to be sure.
  5. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    Spent a lot of time operating a case track loader like that one.
    Did you get the backhoe for it?

    Good thing it doesn't run,
    You need a ROMPS or only use it foe personal use
    (No business or for hire)

    Have you looked in the tank?

    Fuel filter and clean out the water fuel separator,
    Watch for rust water

    Fresh fuel.
    If not

    What color is the smoke?

    Have fun.
  6. xgiovannix12

    xgiovannix12 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    sounds like shes picking up air somewhere... Does it smoke when you try to start it?
  7. Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng Senior Member
    Messages: 304

    Don't know if it would apply to a case, but my telehandler (IR VR90b with a Perkins 1004T) had a very similar issue. Start fine, run for a while (or forever at an idle) then quit. Turned out to be a plugged inlet screen on the low pressure lift pump. At higher loads there wasn't enough pressure to keep the main pump at positive pressure so it would suck air and quit.
  8. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    My experiences with diesels is that the fuel systems don't suck air.
    Due to the psi involved in the lift and IP they spew fuel, if there is any opening in the fuel system.

    It would only suck air when it runs out of fuel.

    A bad pump can cause cavation
    But I didn't want to start there.

    But the filters and fuel is a place to start.
  9. Aerospace Eng

    Aerospace Eng Senior Member
    Messages: 304

    That's what I thought and it is my general experience as well.
    However, every time it stopped I had to bleed the lines by cracking the nuts loose. 2-3 cranks and I would get fuel out. It would restart either with the second or third one bled.

    I figured it had to be the lift pump since otherwise I would have positive pressure and any leak would be spewing fuel. I bought a new lift pump (on the Perkins a separate pump on the side of the block like one would find on a carb'd engine) that feeds the Lucas high pressure pump on the accessory case. When reviewing the manual for the procedure, discovered it had a small curved screen on the inlet side of the pump that came out through the inlet once the bushing for the inlet was removed. Not wanting to struggle with fitting a new pump due to access, I took the bushing out to get access to the screen. When I got the screen out, I found it was plugged.

    I put the one from the new pump in, and the problem went away. I am not sure where the air was coming from (main pump shaft seal, tank return?)

    I do not know if the Case 450 system has a separate lift pump, but thought I would throw it out there since the symptoms were so similar.
  10. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    It still doesn't sound like a hole in a fuel system, to me.

    Sounds like it was draining back, ie,, loosing its prime/fuel psi and draining back into the tank.

    if your blockage caused cavitation of the fuel the air came from the fuel.
    and as you know a blockage will restrict fuel.

    Its a older machine, Rust/water can be a issue and crud can build up in the tank, clogging fuel lines,
    fresh fuel....

    kind of wanted to make sure there was fuel flow before we went to the pumps.
    but that is the next steep.

    Seeing as the OP has gone Casper,( but still posting away in the MN weather thread) he's on his own.:waving: no sense trying to help those who don't really want any.
  11. dieselboy01

    dieselboy01 Senior Member
    Messages: 795

    This one does not have the backhoe. Just a big counter weight on the back. It does have a 4 in 1 bucket tho!

    This loader is just used around the house and to (hopefully) load salt in the winter. I don't have a truck or trailer big enough to move this loader anywhere, anyway.

    The tank looks good and clean. and has fresh fuel. (I drained the rest out)

    The smoke when it starts in a grayish blue and clears up very quick.

    Last year she ran great, has a lot of power and is fun to run!
  12. dieselboy01

    dieselboy01 Senior Member
    Messages: 795

    When I first start it. it will smoke for a few seconds. When I run it and it dies there is no smoke, that's why I think there's a lack of fuel.

    The way this is acting I think there is a plug somewhere in the system too. I just need more info about the workings of this loader.

    I see your point. Diesels usually run a pretty high PSI for the fuel system. The only pump on this loader is the injection pump. It's gravity fed from the tank to the filters, then to the pump.

    I also did a lot of searching online last night and found out that the spin on filter is the secondary fuel filter. The can under and behind the spin on filter is the primary fuel filter. It is a cartridge style and I ordered two new filters last night.

    I'm guessing that's my problem! I've never replaced the "primary" filter because I didn't know what that can was. Now I need to figure out how to take it apart.
  13. dieselboy01

    dieselboy01 Senior Member
    Messages: 795

    Are you talking about me? I'm From Wisconsin, Why would I be posting in the MN weather thread?

    I work on this loader when I have time. It was rainy out yesterday and I didn't feel like messing with it. Sorry I couldn't get back to you right away, but thank you for all your help. Thumbs Up
  14. SnoFarmer

    SnoFarmer PlowSite Fanatic
    from N,E. MN
    Messages: 9,883

    i had a different guy in mind,
    my mistake.

    yea i wouldn't fiddle with it out in the rain ether.
    fuel issues can be simple or $$$.
    lets know what ya find next.
  15. dieselboy01

    dieselboy01 Senior Member
    Messages: 795

    My new filters came today and I replaced them. I knew the secondary filter would be ok. I've replaced that one in the past. I just found out there is a primary filter on this loader so that's what I ordered.

    And that's what the problem was! The primary filter was F'ed and the bowl that filter sits in was packed full of rust and dirt. After a few hours of cleaning, scrubbing and blowing more lines out she runs like a Swiss watch!

    Here's the old filter next to the new filter. I'm not sure if the metal around the old one rotted off or if old filters came this way. Either way it was dripping with nasty fuel/rust/dirt.

    I ran it for about 30 minutes today. Even starts a lot better. I feel dumb that is was just a filter, (I am very happy it was the filter) but I'm new to this machine and had no idea it had two fuel filters.

    I would have worked it more but the brakes started hanging up and were burning. Sense I've had this loader (about a two years) The brakes never worked. The left pedal wouldn't move and if you pressed the right pedal it went to the floor and stayed there. It didn't bother me it didn't have brakes. Now after 30 min of moving you can smell burning brakes and it doesn't want to move very fast. If it sits for an hour things cool down and she'll move no problem (for another 30 min or so) Does anyone know how to take the brakes apart and loosen them back up?
  16. gusdust

    gusdust Senior Member
    Messages: 143

    I don't know much about your Case but I had a 70 ish John Deere and I got help with it on this site. Historical Construction Equipment Association. I can't get the link to work. Good luck.
  17. dieselboy01

    dieselboy01 Senior Member
    Messages: 795

    This loader is pretty historic, I'll check them out thank you!
  18. xgiovannix12

    xgiovannix12 PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,433

    that filter is historic too LOl

    I believe its a big job to get to them brakes but its dooable I think you gotta remove seat I think thats how you get to them on the case
  19. gusdust

    gusdust Senior Member
    Messages: 143

  20. leolkfrm

    leolkfrm PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,978

    i found a rops for my old international 3400 bh on the the internet, nys has a retrofit safety program that covered just about all the cost...might be worth looking into?