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Brickman & Target Lot

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by snow4me, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. snow4me

    snow4me Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    Anyone else on here plow for as a sub for Brickman at a Target store? I'm a small operation and one of their reps just contacted me with a rush request to bid on a local Target at a seasonal rate. He tells me to use NOAA 30 year average to calculate my costs. I told him forget that, it has snowed more frequently the last 5 years probably due to global warming so that 30 year average is skewed.

    Does anyone who does commercial work in Chicago area know how many times they went out last season? It seemed like February we were out every day with nuisance snows salting. These guys want us little guys to take a huge risk and offer a low flat rate for the season. How do you guys even begin to calculate the costs with so many variables?

    I'd love to get into larger commercial work but it could put me out of business in a hurry if it snows more than what you calculate and they are slow or no-payers. How good is Brickman about paying?
  2. SullivanSeptic

    SullivanSeptic PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,422


    Subscribing to this one
  3. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    It's always a rush but if you are dumb enough to believe in global warming then you probably can't come up with a seasonal price either.

    A seasonal price isn't a risk. It is one of the few ways to fix your variables.
  4. snow4me

    snow4me Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    Thanks you just made my day with two of the dumbest statements I've ever read on here.:laughing:

    Let me help you out...global warming is a fact of life read any science journal on the subject matter. Did you just wake up from a 30 year nap?

    A seasonal price only fixes the variables for the buyer... I thought this was a forum for suppliers :dizzy:
  5. snow4me

    snow4me Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    Ok let me get this back on track before it falls off the rails. I'm not new to snow removal however I am new to large commercial accounts requiring fixed price seasonal bids. Last year I plowed 12x and salted only another 5x the year before it was 11-2 or something close to that and the year before was around 13 and 3. The NOAA 30 year average for my area is closer to 9 and 2 so if I were to ignore the last 3 years and calculate my bid based upon the 30 year average thus ignoring the recent trend I would reduce my profit significantly and possibly lose money on an account like this.

    My point being these big box stores are encouraging low bids and could care less if another small business owner loses his shirt:realmad:

    Does anyone know how reliable Brickman is when it comes to getting paid and do they write fair contracts? I just want to know if I'm wasting my time calculating this bid?
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  6. erkoehler

    erkoehler PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,279

    What area are you in?
  7. snow4me

    snow4me Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    I'm in the Algonquin and Barrington communities. Do you have a good bulk salt supplier down near you?
  8. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    You seriously think that global warming is fact? :laughing::laughing::laughing:

    Me thinks you voted for Obumma as well.

    Really grass hopper? A seasonal fixes your gross income for the year. So what if it snows a couple more times then you figured. You will lose less that way then if it snows a couple less times then you need to cover your costs for the year on a per event pricing system.

    ps Your 30 history should take all that "global warming" into consideration. Besides you don't need to use the 30 years history. Use last year if you wish.
  9. RLM

    RLM PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,270

    On the noaa website, ibelieve in the lower right it will have a spot for historical data, im not sure how far back you can go but it goes by month, lists every day, tem, precp, etc.
  10. TCLA

    TCLA 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,707

    Seems like....?!

    IF you are not new at this, why did you not learn about documentation right away?

    Nuisance salting? I didn't know that existed...
  11. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    I think it is a cousin of hungry salt. :nod:
  12. snow4me

    snow4me Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    I see we have another nitwit with a chip on his shoulder this one from Michigan...last one from Iowa.

    "Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you"

    I was not going to look it up but since we have so many critics on here I did later this afternoon hence my later post "Last year I plowed 12x and salted 5x." The 5 times salting were for what those of us with higher than a 3rd grade education call nuisance snows. When it snows enough to make it slippery and not enough to plow. Nuisance; It means that which causes offence, annoyance, trouble or injury. It is more efficient to salt only when there is less than an inch of show which happened 5 times last year.
  13. SullivanSeptic

    SullivanSeptic PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,422

    That's all you salted? I had way more saltings than that. You only salted 5 times without plowing? Did I read your post right?
  14. cretebaby

    cretebaby PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 4,162

    Hey Jim he called you a nitwit.:laughing:
  15. snow4me

    snow4me Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    It's called a "nuisance snow" which is what I wrote in my original post but apparently both you and TCLA can't read or comprehend.

    Didn't anyone ever tell you it is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to respond to a post on a public forum and confirm it?
  16. JD Dave

    JD Dave PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,194

    You already seem to know everything so bid what you think. Basically all my sites are seasonal and I agree with Crete about it. Nothing is a nuisance if your making money while your doing it.
  17. mullis56

    mullis56 Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 824

    Holy moly I'm dieing here! I got prices from Brickman who we do some work for on the Target here I told them increase by 75% and we can talk, we aren't talking. The fact is they had to bid so cheap we won't deal with them. We thousands of dollars of work with them at our prices and we laughed at the Target prices.
  18. newlooklandscp

    newlooklandscp Senior Member
    from Midwest
    Messages: 476

    That is what I am getting from that. Im up in the 30's
  19. snow4me

    snow4me Senior Member
    Messages: 127

    I just double checked and realized I missed one salt only applied on 12/16 so I've got 6x up here in Barrington...how many do your records show from this past year and where are you located?

    If some of you guys had seasonal contracts last year and had to salt 30x what did that do to your bottom line on those accounts. I realize that you should accept some seasonal contracts to ensure you make money in a low snow year. It seems to me that they key to mitigating your risk in snow removal is to keep a good balance between seasonal and per occurrence contracts. I'm just wondering what the Chicagoland guys use for a basis when calculating their costs on a seasonal contract. I mean if you salted 30x last year on a 6 acre lot and let's just say your cost was $500 per salt application then you spent $15K on salt alone. What are you guys bidding on something this size where you can still make a profit?
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  20. SullivanSeptic

    SullivanSeptic PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,422

    Did you just quote a "Steelers Wheel" song in a plowing forum? I was just checking?