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Bad Subs

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by Michael M, Jan 4, 2008.

  1. Michael M

    Michael M Member
    Messages: 80

    I had an issue with a sub and I would like to get some input.
    My truck was down and my main sub was away on vacation he gave me this guys name said he was a friend and someone reliable and honest. This guy starting plowing my route at 2pm, at about 7:30 pm the fourth customer on the list called me screaming because we weren't there. I SAID TO HER "WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE HASN'T COME?" Then two other customers called me bitching.So I called my sub and he told me that he was stuck at one of my accounts. This driveway is flat, very tight, but a little plowing knowledge and
    he never would have got stuck. He told me a wrecker had to come and pull him out. I said why didn't you call me and tell me so I could inform my customers? I lost two customers because of the sh---ty job he did and because he was so late so they couldn't move their cars. The other night I plowed at the house where he got stuck, the homeowner told me that HE pulled this guys truck out, he just had back surgery, his flagpole got broken, tore up half of his front yard and was furious with what happened and he was about to fire me. He said this guy had no idea how to plow snow, which was evident by him getting stuck in this driveway. I told the homeowner I wouldn't charge him for that plow.

    My question is what should I do as far as paying him? He should have called me to prevent alot of this from happening.I gave him half of his money, should he get the rest? I know my answer but I want to hear your opinion.
    Thank You.
  2. jkiser96

    jkiser96 Senior Member
    Messages: 401

    It depends on if you have anything in writing. If you don't have a contract stating his pay I would tell him that he is paid in full & what money is left wil help with repair expenses & explain to him that you already lost 2 accounts & that his services are no longer needed EVER.
  3. GreenKingL&L

    GreenKingL&L Member
    Messages: 36

    I would second that, his imcompetence has cost you more than he made you, I would explain that you have already been more then generous by giving him half his expected pay, and that he is no longer needed.
  4. doh

    doh Senior Member
    Messages: 253

    Being a one truck operation, I very seldomly have to hire a sub. A friend of mine who liked plowing, (sillyman) used to offer to switch out with me on bigger storms. He did a fantastic job, just slow. He was very "anal" at any joob he did. So I would do the jobs that must be done on time, and set him free on the rest. He would never except pay, so I would have to buy gifts, for his time.

    Well unfortunentlly he was indisposed last year, when the family and I went on vacation. I hired a co worker, who though less than settlar plowing skills, did do the job, with minmal damage. Some clients complained, but after hearing the storey of "First family vaction in winter in 17 years of plowing. They understood.

    He dose deserve payment, he did do the work, albeit not well. Maybe not full maybe half and some lesson, not during an event. If you are good in that sort of people handling.But wanting to learn for a sub of a sub, would takeas much compasion as tring to train someone that messed up your bussiness that much. It was not his equipment that was broke down, or his sub that was on vacation.

    Now it is time to patch things up with the clients and get prepaired for the next 2 fault problem.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2008
  5. Clapper&Company

    Clapper&Company PlowSite Veteran
    from NE OHIO
    Messages: 4,413

    Make him pay for damages.

    I wouldnt give him anymore money
  6. Scottscape

    Scottscape Senior Member
    Messages: 662

    He is a sub, not an employee. He pays for damanges not you. make him pay for it.
  7. scitown

    scitown Senior Member
    Messages: 422

    Anyone that hires a sub has to keep in mind that they would have their own accounts if they were able. I would never let somone loose on my lawns if I hadn't trained them myself. Take the money he owes you for damage and pay him what he deserves. If he deserves nothing pay him nothing.
  8. MB3

    MB3 Senior Member
    Messages: 123

    Why would you own a truck and a plow and have no accounts, or already be plowing for someone? Seems kind of funny to have the equipment and not know how to use it.
  9. Brant'sLawnCare

    Brant'sLawnCare PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,756

    Maybe he plowed parking lots. Driveways are a lot harder than a lot. It's a tough situation, sounds like you hired someone that you didn't know anything about, and on the other hand your reliable sub told you that he was good. So, it's really hard to say. If I hired a sub to plow, ultimately I COULD be responsible. But in this situation, I'd say it's about half and half. So, you gave him half of his money, keep the other half for repairs. Or talk to him and ask him what the heck he was doing!
  10. Mister M

    Mister M Junior Member
    Messages: 2

    If he expects to be paid show him what he did

    Don't lose your temper, he's a human being. I would not pay him or charge him for damages. I would however give your main sub an earful as it seems he seems he gave you a load. See what you can get him to take responsibility for.
  11. Mister M

    Mister M Junior Member
    Messages: 2

    Oh, and if you have a written agreement with this double sub guy, you MUST pay him, regardless of damages, unless there is a specific clause stating otherwise. Also, you should have gotten all the insurance certificates before he worked, it dosen't sound as if that's the case though, good luck.

    IPLOWSNO PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,620

    the dude lied to you didnt he? i would tell him thanks and give him x thats up to you. but i cant stand liars imo?
  13. mullis56

    mullis56 Senior Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 824

    That situation sucks for you....pay him what you think is fair I'd take care of repairs first and tell him he can find someone else to **** next time!
  14. scottL

    scottL PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,613

    If you HIRED him with employee status then you owe him for what he did do, and you own any damages.

    If you tasked him as a SUB then you owe him for what he did do BUT, he owns the damages.
  15. qualitycut

    qualitycut PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 24,231

    Well I do a few lots for a guy and I backed into a light pole and I called him to tell him and said I would pay for it which I think the sub should. If employee thats a different story but I would make him pay and then give him what the balance is if there is any.

    CARDOCTOR PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,312

    here's my take on the whole thing. so your truck is broken you get somebody unfamiliar with your route to plow . why didnt you be his passenger and help him plow. i got a call to plow a driveway
    what i tought was the drive way wasnt and had to have the farmer pull me out . since then i never plow a property that i havnt looked at before ot snows.

    on your buddy going on vacation during the snow season. isnt that illegal

    Last edited: Jan 8, 2009
  17. Salisbury1975

    Salisbury1975 Junior Member
    from Detroit
    Messages: 26

    I've got a million stories like your from the past 15 years involving sub contractors. But finally this year we starting paying our subs a flat rate or percentage of the job. You'd be amazed that the job that took 3 hrs last year and i lost money on or broke even I now make 30-35% and they get it done quicker and are responsible to go back and fix any mistakes. Its also wise to put everything in writing in the form of a sub contractor agreement ie. pricing, map of property with special instructions, payment procedure, time keeping ect. Also make sure they have the proper insurance coverage or your policy holder will charge them to yours and jack your rates during your annual audit. You also eliminate them "sqeezing " in a couple of their own accts on your dime. By the way i would not pay him and make him cover the damages at your client's home.