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Anyone using one of these?

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by SnowGuy73, Sep 17, 2005.

  1. SnowGuy73

    SnowGuy73 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 24,870

    Hey guys just wondering if anyone is using one of these, or knows anyone using them. They look like they might be nice for bigger lots and private roadways.
  2. lumps

    lumps Senior Member
    Messages: 365

    it looks like a good idea, but i'm thinking you'd need a ridiculous amount of weight in the back to keep it from kicking out, especially in wet or heavy (deep) snow.
  3. GetMore

    GetMore Senior Member
    Messages: 179

    It probably isn't that bad, since the rear blade is at a shallow angle. Of course if you try plowing an entire shopping center to the right you would run into problems. :dizzy:
  4. Brian Young

    Brian Young PlowSite Veteran
    Messages: 3,394

    We have a dealer in Erie that uses one of those and he said his F-250 has trouble in heavy snow. He said he would use at least a one ton truck if not bigger. His is a Blizzard.
  5. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    Sidewing Talk

    Don't shoot me for saying this, but do a search on Sidewing and you will find plenty of positive discussion on it. The guys that use them swear by them, and they are awesome for for pushing snow over curbs, clearing private single lane roads in one pass. They balance the truck out so you don't need to put in ballast, my biggest problem is cost, I think it was 4-5 thousand. But think about it, that is cheaper than running another truck.
  6. farmertim

    farmertim Member
    Messages: 95

    I got one last year...

    and now that I have one I wouldn't plow with out it.
    Its not the best for lots but long drives or common roads and widening out or more room in the ditches (or lack of such) or just to roll back it can't be beat!!!!
    I use to have a loader tractor with a fixed wing front V plow to roll back banks but now I just use the side wing.
    Kicking out on the truck is not a problem unless it needs to kick out, say when you hit a tree or a hidden stump in the bank, and I have done both several times with no damage to the unit :eek: and I wouldn't add to much weight, it would reduce that need to kick out when it it has to.
    I do carry a 400lb counter weight on the drivers side to level it out a bit for when you are carrying it your truck will lean to the side of the wing. With that weight and the wing up (350lbs) you have more than enough traction to plow about anything.
    The only complaint I have is that the hydrolics are very slow when cold, and slow in general for the rear cylinder.
    i am talking to the company now to speed it up a bit.
    I plan to add shoes this year to reduce the cutting tendency of the wing to plow into dirt and gravel. It really isn't a problem mostly its the leaves and crap from when they grade the roads (try to anyway) that I peal off and throw in the bank the first few times.
    Once the road is froze I would remove them.
    I have noticed no extra pull on the truck even in heavy snow situations, or even rolling back banks.
    To roll back banks just swing wing out in up postion and up and over the snow goes, then go back on down postion out and roll the remainder up and into the area from the first pass.
    The blade has more of a C shape and throws up rather than forward with the long angle of the plow.
    If you are cutting into hard banks use your front blade as a balast to keep you from kicking out, if not you will be forced right into the bank and into the ditch, I forgot when widening out in late spring and dropped the side wing before I got the vplow down in front and was put right onto the ditch d@#b quick.
    You do have to watch backing up near banks, raised up the side wing is only about 8 inches off the ground and will act as a funnel and pull you into a bank as you back up if it is on you right and you not paying attention.
    its also hell on mail boxes even folded in for the top of the wing is 1/2 higher than the standard mail box setting when up and folded in and will peel them off so easy you won't even know it given the slight raise in height from front the back.
    It will slide underneath down and folded out but I now only clear boxes from the drivers side.
    Hope that helps, my conditions are the most extreme of any body on this site and it has held up very well...
  7. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    I'm curious, what don't you like about it for lots?
  8. farmertim

    farmertim Member
    Messages: 95

    Lot usage on the side wing...

    Well for one the wing only works from the right, and most of my lots due to slopes have to be pushed all to one end.
    The three acres I plow here at the farm for a parking lot works ok because I can push all to the right.
    One thing I found is it works really well to plow on a turn to the left but will leave a trail when turning to the right when it misses the windrow left by the front plow.
    it works great on circle drive if you can dump off to the right, but is ineffective if you cant.
    It has its uses but is not designed for all applications.
    The big plow and patrol trucks for our county have side wings mounted off the front bumper that make it much more versital, but the cost of the truck reflects that ability.
    I do know even though i can't use it in all circumstances, it more than pays for itself for what you can use it for.
    less time and fuel to do my route and way less time and less fuel plus less the cost of another piece of equipment for widening out long drives and common roads.
    I see the need for improvement on the system but works great as is and I would think the updates would be coming in the near future.
    i will be talking with the company in the morning and ask about the new models if any coming out.
    I also priced a central hydrolic system to run the side wing, it was about 3000.00, I think i can put up with a slow pump or update the electric motor cheaper.
    The system puts out 3 gallons a minuite, but has long lines to the rear ram which slows it down when its cold which is only the real complaint I have.
    The only manufactured problem I see could that be fixed , and one I will be for I plow this year is that the cushion arm that hooks to the ball receiver which is attached to the cylinder for extension of the wing is between the ram and the truck. If you back into a hard bank of snow you can pop off the quick coupler if your lucky.
    I snapped off a connection twice and you dont' know it till you go to extend and dump you oil out before you notice your wing is not extending.
    If the cushion arm was mounted on the opposite side of the ram it would hit the bank first and protect the hose connections.
    (It may seem that I pound my equipment rather severly but I really don't plow roads, or drives, they are mainly two dirt trails, logging roads made to service as drives, no ditches, and no room to turn around other than for a normal passenger car.
    I have one road thats gravel, one thats blacktop, the rest are trails, cut into the ground, not a raised road bed, most are more than a mile long.)
    Moving the connections on the ram to the side facing the truck would help as well, but may limit the movability of the cushion arm as you are moving along with the wing down, or up and out when rolling banks back.
    any way it could be better but works great and I'm sure I will have my modifications done by snow flies.
    Nice thing is you take it off when you don't need it and that very easy to do.
    I could set it up more perminant and just drop the wing and leave the hydrolic system in tact, given all I do in the winter is plow, where as if I had a normal pickup I would still want the ability to remove everything that is vounderable mentioned above.
    I'll post picks later this fall.
    Farmer Tim
  9. SnowGuy73

    SnowGuy73 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 24,870

    Wow, well thanks for all the responses. I was wondering if they really work or not, I might just have to looking to buying one now!
  10. mook

    mook Junior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 20

    anything less than a 1 ton would suck using that thing. especially if you live in any type of lake effect snow belt where the snow is heavy and wet.
  11. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644


    Did you say you have used the Sidewing or own the Sidewing? Because your comment just doesn't seem logical. Farmer Tim has provided us with some of the best real world description, good and bad, of his own Sidewing with no mention of problems in heavy snow. Also if you look at the design of the wing it just shoots the snow back and up, its not like your front plow thats pushing. Last winter I printed some pictures of another thread on plowsite where the guy was pushing DEEP snow and the wing was just flicking it off to the side with no problem for his truck.
  12. Dupesy

    Dupesy Member
    Messages: 61

    Only 350 lbs? I've got a driver that weighs more than that! I was concerned about the weight hanging off the side, but now with some more info...

    We'll see. Don't get too excited, ThePlowKing!
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2005
  13. jhook

    jhook Senior Member
    Messages: 375

    Very interesting. Thanks for all the detailed response. I was looking into these units last winter. I was very intrigued but never had any real world details. I could see right away the advantages and also the limitations of the unit. And basically the only reason I don't have one is that I don't have enough work where it would really shine. Also, once I started thinking about my specific commercial sites, it occured to me that I plow a lot of them to the left and the unit would not work so well for me.

    Did you mention what kind of truck you mounted this on? I can't remember if I read that somewhere or not. Reg or ext cab?
  14. mook

    mook Junior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 20

    i have never used it, but i know that last year the snow was heavy enough to throw my truck off to the side while pushing it. i can't imagine having that same force on the side of the truck.
  15. Grn Mtn

    Grn Mtn PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,644

    Okay I see where your coming from, but in 3 years of plowing I've only plowed the really wet stuff twice..It sure does rooster tail well :D So you don't use the wing like Tim said, it has its uses and non-uses, but overall it will make you money.
  16. RN Sidewing

    RN Sidewing Junior Member
    Messages: 4

    Well hkjghhkj.. kjhn. ,knb.n nkhn.ln ,khn.
  17. SnowGuy73

    SnowGuy73 PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 24,870

    Anybody else having trouble with this one?
  18. mook

    mook Junior Member
    from Ohio
    Messages: 20

    left my decoder ring in the cracker jack box this morning.
  19. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,254

    I could make a guess, based on the comments that mook made, having never used the product.

    This has happened frequently in the Blizzard threads, where somebody makes a comment about something they have never used. This is OK, everybody has opinions, but please tell them this is your opinion--not your experience. Especially when you have a first hand user giving the positive and negative experiences he has had.

    My opinion, although I plan on using one this year, is that they are a great addition for some trucks, not all. Think about it this way: you have a $35K truck with an 8' plow, anything over 2-3" when windrowing you are only using about 1/2 to 1/3 the blade so you don't have spills\runoff\trails\dribbles, so you are plowing with 4' of your blade. Add a $5K plow to the side of your truck that doubles your production (4' +4'=8'), but you do not have the added expense of another $35K truck plus another operator. Even if you can't use it on everything you plow, although I think you will rethink how you plow a lot of things to make more use of it, this is a no-brainer for me.

    Would I put one on every truck I own? I doubt it. Would it be useful in quite a few applications that will make it pay for itself? Absolutely.
  20. farmertim

    farmertim Member
    Messages: 95

    sidewing pressures on truck.

    As I sit here and try to remember if I plowed any wet heavy snow with it,
    Does rain mixed with snow count or slush from 2 inches of rain on 4 inches of snow?
    In both cases no kick out was noticed, the blade its self is 7 feet long but only extends out 4 feet which alows the snow to move back more than to the side which reduces the pressure against the ruck.
    The pull point of the plow is in the middle of the truck, and it is attached to the reciver hitch in the rear, but given it moves snow to the back more than to the side you don't get the kick out everyone is woried about.
    Mine is mounted on a Ford F-350 SD cab & 1/2 single rear full box pickup with a short box hauler bed instead of the full box.
    I bought a used short bed hauler bed because it was close and I want to put an extra tank in the 17 inches that I have between the truck and headache rack. It had nothing to do with the mounting of the sidewing.
    The hauler bed weighs about twice what the pickup box does and the only other weight I carry is the 400 lb counter weight.
    if I am in real deep snow or drifts the first pass is made with wing up and out and v-plow folded back, but that was only once due to heavy drifting, all other times the wing was down and out and it really makes no difference how much snow you are moving as long as it isn't a hard bank, the same power is used to plow wether you use the wing or not.
    I would guess that one would have to add 500lb in a conventional pickup box to compensate the heavier bed that I have and the counter weight, but 1000 lbs is what I use to carry around in my chevy dually 1 ton with a 9 foot western straight blade to keep that from moving around too much in heavier snow.
    Granted my SD weighs 2000 lbs more than my chevy did empty but most are running the heavier trucks now anyway.
    I wouldn't try to mount a wing on a 150 or 1500, the weight alone when up and folded in would compromise the truck frame and box for sure.
    Its not that the wing is so heavy it just hangs to one side of the frame a little better than two feet, same reason the hanging weight is greater in a front plow because of the distance from the actual truck frame.
    The dymanics are changes so you need certain frame strengths to compensate for it.
    I would admit there is places when kick out will occur but I have seen that happen on the county trucks given the right stiuation, but they use a much less angle that this side wing does.
    They run around here almost at a 75 degree angle where the sidewing is like 38 percent or so.
    I have heard some guys tacking on another foot to the side wing, it only gives you about 8 inches more clearence but I would think the kick back chance would be increased, not only that stress on the cushion arm is increased.
    I will in the next month get some picks from my set up to see what I am talking about.
    I did purchase mine used for 1500.00 so I have no idea if the pump was toasted before I got it which would account for some of the slow movement of the extension arm.
    It is very easy to run them out of fluid for the system only holds about 1 1/2 quarts and it you break off the hose and you cant see it of course the oil dumps out pretty quick if you try to extend the rear cylinder.
    hope that helps some