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Any body got a master's degree and wants to teach a snow managment class

Discussion in 'Commercial Snow Removal' started by itsgottobegreen, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. itsgottobegreen

    itsgottobegreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,351

    Well I just convinced my college professor to add a "Snow and Ice Management" class to the landscape contractor degree program. Since thats what most landscapers do during the winter. Only problem none of the three teachers in the program own a snow plow currently or ever did commercial plowing.

    So in order to get a class going. He need someone who has a master's degree in order to teach college. Well anyways I got sucker into finding someone willing to teach. I would teach it myself. But they won't let me.

    I feel that 10 years of snow plowing experience would be a must. Must have done Large amounts of commercial plowing. Knows how to bid, deal with contracts, managing crew, etc.

    Knows were to used what when. (side walk crews, pick ups, big trucks, skid loader, rubber tire loaders/backhoes, farm rigs, blowers,etc. )

    Equipment maintenance.

    Salt and other chemicals. (biggy)


    Basically you get to write your own class. Because no one has ever taught one. Its at Montgomery college, Germantown campus. 1 night aweek.
  2. sonjaab

    sonjaab PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,425

    You could go over to http://www.sima.org and ask if any of the
    CSPs (certified snow professionals) would fit the bill for what you

    SIMAs CSP program is quite extensive and covers all aspects of the
    snow removal industry.
  3. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    I have a Master's degree, but don't have some of the requirements you're listing. I have experience teaching college as an Adjunct Professor. This is intriquing if the logistics could be worked out. If you're interested, send me a PM. If nothing else, maybe I'd help with the curriculum.
  4. itsgottobegreen

    itsgottobegreen PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,351

    I was thinking of going to SIMA. If this route failed. Maybe I should have keep my mouth shut in the first place. :rolleyes:
  5. plowed

    plowed Senior Member
    Messages: 344

    I too have an MBA and like Mick, would be willing to contribute to the syllabus/content, etc.
  6. Kramer

    Kramer Senior Member
    Messages: 386

    Not to be negative here, but.....

    I think the educational system in this country is out of whack. A masters degree to teach some of the basics of snow control???

    I realize its a college requirement to be at a masters level to teach, but personally, I think its ridiculous.

    Chapter one... types of plows, benefits of each, limitations of each

    Chapter 2... ice control methods... salt/chemicals and spreader types. Environmental impact of ice control. Limitations application equipment.

    Chapter 3...ancillary equipment... snow blowers, skid steers, shovels, push boxes. Types and advantages.

    Chapter 4...vehicle types, operation, maintenance, emergency procedures and code restrictions

    Chapter 5... insurance, liability and subcontacting

    Chapter 6... customer satisfaction, payment schedules, commercial vs residential requirements.

    Send me my masters degree! :redbounce
  7. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    The Master's degree requirement has nothing to do with the subject material being taught. It has to do with the transferability of credits to another institution.
  8. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,253

    Kramer, not be negative, but you forgot a HUGE aspect of any business, so your Master's degree will have to wait. Why don't you give it a guess or two as to what the most important aspect of running a business that you left out and then we'll see. :nod:

    Maybe it's the educational system. :D
  9. flykelley

    flykelley 2000 Club Member
    Messages: 2,127

    Selling Selling and then some more selling? :drinkup:

    Regards Mike
  10. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,253

    Thanks Mike, I actually forgot that one.

    OK Kramer, you forgot 2 aspects, Mike got one, are you going to get the other one?

    A hint, Mike was very close to it, it is sometimes the first thing the customer wants to know, and the last thing the contractor wants to tell them, that is, after selling their comapny.
  11. Mick

    Mick PlowSite.com Veteran
    from Maine
    Messages: 5,546

    How about - The first thing that 99% of the new people here ask and what hardly ever gets answered (directly - anyway).
  12. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    How to quote? :rolleyes:
  13. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,253

    Ding, Ding, Ding! We have a winner. Way to go Grassbusters! :bluebounc Yes Mick had the right answer as well.

    Dang it, seeing kramer is the MBA or MS, I wanted to see if he could figure it out. :D ;)

    What is the most important aspect of a business? Making money, correct? I know most of us love plowing snow, but we also enjoy the money we make while plowing. Heck, if I didn't need the money, I would plow for free, OK at least cover my costs. Anyways, what every business owner should know is how to determine their costs and then they know how much to charge per hour. Having production rates is the next step. But it doesn't matter one whit how much I am charging per hour because every business is different and every market is different. If you aren't going to make money, you might just as well not go into business.

    Kramer, maybe this is a course you need to look in to instead of knocking the requirements for the instructor.
  14. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    Or when the class gets going Kramer can enroll in it:p (that is if he meets the educational requirements and has the proper prerequisites) No cheating :nono:

    were just giving you a hard time :cool:
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2005
  15. nekos

    nekos Senior Member
    Messages: 586

    maybe im missing something here but i can't see teaching a class specifically on snow plowing is even worth while.
    the actual plowing and salting part of it you could maybe spread out over a week to teach.< could be done in a day if you really wanted >
    the rest of it is just business. why take a snow plowing class when you could take a business class or accounting class ?
    this isn't rocket science or anything.

    good idea i just don't think there is enough information about plowing snow to fill up a collage course.
  16. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    We must not all be as smart as you :rolleyes:

    There is A LOT more to plowing snow than "plowing and salting" but you already know that ;)

    "why take a snow plowing class when you could take a business class or accounting class ?"

    Why don't you think of it as a "business class" intended for those in the snow and ice field. It's a nice way to cut out all the crap and getting to the point.

    I also think that Mechanics should be a part of the class.

    Chapter 15,
    - Emergency snowplow repair
    - plow, spreader, and truck maintenance, and so on
    - What to bring when plowing
  17. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes PlowSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,253

    Michigan State has a 2 year landscape management course, they have 4 year landscaping courses. The biggest downfall to these courses is they don't address business or accounting at all. But they still have the courses and degrees to go along with them.

    I would have taken it, I probably even still would now. And I've been plowing since I was 14, shoveling since I was 8. I sure as heck don't know everything there is to know. It would take a little to make it worthwhile, but I think it would be a very worthwhile course. Hopefully it would start adding to the professionalism of the industry just like SIMA is helping out with.

    A business or accounting class would be worthwhile as well. But, if it could be more narrowly focused on the snow industry, that would be fantastic. Think about taking the knowledge that is here and other forums and combining it into a snow management course, that would be awesome. General business and accounting classes are just that--general. They cater to every type of business, whether producing a product or providing a service, mostly products from my experience. And that is way different than a service provider. There are some costs for services that cannot get below a certain point, while in manufacturing, raw material pricing can change on a daily or hourly basis.

    I could go on, but I need to get home to the family. Good discussion, let's keep it up.
  18. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    :drinkup: well said Mark
  19. nekos

    nekos Senior Member
    Messages: 586

    haha me smart ??? right right right
    last time some one thought i was smart was ..... ummm ummm i can't remember that far back :)

    exactly what crap are you talking about ?
    fundamentally, running a snow removal business is no different then running a liqueur store. thats what a business class teaches , the basics of running a business of any type. you won't get specific's on how to run any buisness because they are all different. what apply's to one company won't always apply to your's.
    even tailoring one class specifically to snow removal , you could only teach the fundamentals and give a few tip's and tricks because specific's won't work for every snow removal company.

    i kinda like this idea, that could be very helpful
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2005
  20. Vaughn Schultz

    Vaughn Schultz PlowSite.com Addict
    Messages: 1,565

    I do want to apologizes for jumping on you :salute: It was not necessary, we all have are opinions :waving: